The Coalition of National Park Service Retirees sees no need to change gun laws in the national parks, saying that allowing the public to carry weapons in the parks could jeopardize the safety of visitors.
Last month, you might recall, the Traveler pointed to an effort by nearly half the U.S. Senate to allow concealed weapons to be carried in the parks. Current Park Service policy allows permitted weapons to be transported through the parks, but they must be unloaded and stored so as they're not readily accessible.
Forty-seven senators, led by Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, don't think that's good enough. He says varying gun laws on federal lands can be confusing to gun holders. (The New York Times pointed out, though, that if gun holders are confused, perhaps they shouldn't be permitted to carry guns.)
In a letter to Representative Nick Rahall, who chairs the House Natural Resources Committee, the coalition asked that if legislation proposing a change in the current regulations reaches his committee, that it not gain favorable consideration.
We believe that to change these regulations so that visitors might wear or keep firearms close at hand in national parks - guided by differing state laws -could significantly increase the danger to visitors in national parks. Equally worrisome is that such a practice would almost certainly put wildlife in many parks at greater risk, wrote the coalition. Poaching would become easier. And visitors who believe that carrying a firearm provides them with extra “security” and the authority to shoot animals would be far more likely to use deadly force whenever they feel the slightest threat. Information gathered by State and Federal wildlife management organizations throughout the country overwhelmingly indicates that both people and wildlife are safer when guns are not the first choice when people feel threatened.
Comments
I'm very glad to see this passed. As a law enforcement officer, I recongnize, unlike many others, that there are hundreds of tousands of folks just like myself who carry a concealed firearm while off-duty, solely for the protection of myself and others.
Criminals don't care about laws. With the old law, the criminals would still carry their weapons onto the federal land, while the law abiding citizens would follow the law and not carry. That would create federal lands, with only criminals having firearms.
With the passage of this law, you may still have the criminals carrying guns where they aren't suppose to, but at least you will also have people like myself there able to defend my own family, and maybe even yours.
It is common sense, but unfortunately many people don't have that, it just can't be taught...
Wow, the comments of many in here are downright scary at times and simply retarded at others. The simple fact is that someone who goes to the trouble, training and expense of obtaining a CCW is 99.99% of the time a person I, and my family, are not in any way shape or form concerned about having a firearm on their person. The simple fact is there have been many instances of people being prayed on in a national park, not only by criminals, but yes, wild animals. You people do realize that wild animals do exist in a National Park don't you? How would you like to come across a bear with your young children and realize you have no way of protecting that child should a wild animal decide to attack? This does not mean that any gun owner wants to have to shoot an animal, or a person for that matter, ever! It means last resort, me, my child, or a bear I'm going to protect my child and my family. If you want to be a victim, if you want to be forced to stand by while you or your family are attacked, you go right ahead, however, the Constitution of this country states that I have an implicit right to self protection and an implicit right to a firearm for that protection. If you don't like it then that same Constitution has a mechanism to change that Constitution and you are free to try and do so. Until that day, tough beans. And for the record, I am a gun owner, I don't have a CCW and I have never felt the need to have one nor carry my gun, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else doesn't have that right. If you can't handle that, then as I said, change it or go somewhere where you don't have those rights. If you're a Park Ranger and you don't like, retire, go do something else, but don't you dare for a second think you have the right to take away my rights. We employ you, not the other way around.
Hello all
So very few people understand the issues guns and safety. We have those that are totally opposed and only have or use certain data to back up their beliefs and we have those for that do exactly the same. Well I look at it completely objectively.
First it's sad that we need to carry guns to begin with. But there is a climate in this country that makes is so that some of us feel safer if we have it.
When I go out in the wild I carry one but never with the intent of killing anything but rather just protection in case some situation comes up. That's all. I also am far more apt to carry one if I have my family or friends with me. You simply never know what might happen. It can be looked at as an insurance policy if you like.
Now about concealed guns in our national parks. Let's face it, they are being carried today and have been for years. There is that segment of our society and it's much larger than you think that carry concealed guns where ever they go. Whether you walk the streets of LA or are out in some park makes no difference, the ones who have them now are the ones that are truly dangerous and have a superior feeling or power knowing that it's highly unlikely that an ordinary citizen has one because the law says they can't. So the criminal has the advantage and knows it.
Now something that few people know is the fact that criminals are afraid of people that carry guns or have them in their homes. A prison psychologist once told me the reason that home invasions are rare is because they are afraid of being shot by the homeowner. The point is that when law abiding citizens can carry concealed guns the criminals become hesitant about randomly targeting people. Florida is a prime example of that. They adopted the concealed carry law, people against it predicted dire consequences which didn't happened and in fact just the opposite happened. Shooting went down.
The truth is that all people whether they carry or not will be safer in parks and the streets. Law abiding citizens are just that, they will always be law abiding, carrying a gun doesn't make them stupid. That concept is relegated to the movies. This is only one point of many I want to make about carrying guns, owning guns, etc. Learn about the issue OBJECTIVELY and HONESTLY and keep your emotions out of it and stop making these statements that invoke fear, you aren't selling life insurance. BE HONEST about it and we'll do just fine.
Side note here: Now do you want to honestly do something about violence then get rid of the violence in the entertainment media, TV, movies, games! Stop teaching our children, young people and adults to be violent. The violence in this country comes as no surprise certainly not at the levels we have now. I'll add one more thought. Gun violence in this country and the globe for that matter is truly at this point a cultural and ethnic problem. I'm yes I don't believe in political correctness. Political correctness is nothing more than avoiding the truth.
nuff said and it probably doesn't matter a bit anyway. This country over all is getting to darn dumb on all issues.
Dennis
The media is typically liberal and there is a good reason for it. Has to do with learning styles and the type of person that gravitates towards a job in journalism. Plain and simple and I wont' take the time to explain it now.
Kurt wrote"Will park visitation drop off if the gun regulations are rewritten to make weapons more available in the parks?" It probably won't. Most likely it won't affect it at all. And remember if there comes a time when there is a gun problem the law will be reversed almost immediately. So this is an question that is addressing the extreme. After all there will be people there with concealed guns anyway and highly likely they are career criminals just visiting and they too seldom use their guns but they have them just the same. And they truly are more apt to use them if the opportunity might arise. If we all can carry the guns, those opportunities to the criminal will become less because he's not going to know if the person he's interested in attacking is armed or not.
Kurt wrote:""That's a good question, one that needs to be thought through extremely carefully by the folks at Interior. But I fear they are driven too much by politics to think clearly. Personally, I don't worry too greatly about it because I head to the backcountry where relatively few others do. But if I was heading to a campground, where folks sit around campfires and drink, where kids get into things when their parents aren't watching, yeah, I'd probably think twice about it."""
You focus on the extreme and irresponsible scenario. This truly is rare. Gun owners that I know are so darned diligent about guns and the education of their children. I"m 61 and I remember in Wisconsin living on the farm that every one of our neighbors had a gun cabinet usually in the living room with all the guns and ammunition right there. We knew and we never touched them!!!! Because we knew!!!! We knew the dangers and we were responsible. And not once did I or any of my friends or did I ever hear of anyone of them suggesting we take a gun without permission and go out and shoot it. Not once!!! Because we knew and even as kids has a strong sense of responsibility about it. I detect you deal in fear mongering and your opinion of gun owners is completely wrong.
Kurt wrote: ""Too, if you've read many of the comments that have been directed at me over this issue the past 2-plus years, you'd be rightfully concerned about the stability and focus of quite a few of the so-called good and law-abiding gun owners."""
This statement is a testimony of your perception of what a typical gun owner is. You are so wrong. I know you have never hung around gun owners or gone to a shooting range and become one of the members nor have you had a chance to mingle with them. I've had people come and visit that in some cases were against guns or some didn't know. And I would take them out to shoot and in some cases take them to a competition. It without exception changes their mind. The point is their source of education about guns has been the the news media and the perceived power of the guns on in the entertainment industry. Guns are now where as powerful as seen on TV.
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Kuet wrote:"""And what about the young adults who might have just obtained their CCW permit and head everywhere they go with their firearm? """
This tells me that you have a low opinion of young adults and believe they are irresponsible. Put yourself in the shoes of a young adult interested enough to get a concealed carry permit. I'm afraid you are driven by prejudice. That's a sad commentary on your thought process and what makes it worse is that you sent this message to others when you were in the media business and you are wrong. Shame on you.
Kurt wrote:"""What if they're hiking down a trail, figure they're far away from civilization and rangers, and decide to take some target practice? What if they miss their target and hit a hiker coming the other way that they didn't see?"""
This is an extreme case. Can it happen, certainly. However it's much more likely to happen with a person that is carrying the gun illegally. They are the ones that don't care after all the gun laws don't pertain to them.. What you don't understand or feeled compelled to research and believe is that when people take on responsiblities they respond in a positive way. Just think of all the killing in this country, how many of them are committed by people with legally owned or carried guns? I'll bet that probably 99% or more are committed by people who have the weapon illegally and couldn't own one legally anyway! Think about LA, I've lived there! And it wrong to know that when you walk the streets that only the police and the criminals are carrying. And we have to walk the streets essentially completely vulnerable.
Kurt wrote: """What about bluffing grizzlies? Many times they'll charge you to intimidate. Will a gun owner resort to pulling the trigger rather than taking more appropriate action and either wound or completely miss the bear and end up worse for it?"""
I have to chuckle here. Being a gun owner and knowing my guns, the last resort would be to pull a gun and shoot. And it's so for the vast majority of gun owners because they know their guns and the power they have. If I carried to ward off a grizzly it would be to make a lot of noise with. I would not shoot the grizzly. However I suspect that if you have a gun, and you were threatened that you would. You essentially state that. You aren't a gun owner and know little about them and it shows! And again you are creating an extreme scenario which is what people like you do. It sad that people resort to that type of persuasion tactic.
Kuet wrote: ""Why are ranger groups and police groups opposed to expansion of CCW regulations?""" Is it because they're macho organizations that want to consolidate firepower, or do they have legitimate concerns over the frightening array of loosely written CCW laws and the increasing availability of weapons?""" The heads of these organizations are frequently anti but the people within aren't. I know. The chief of police in a town is probably more than not an anti gun person. The reason being is that the politicians that promote these people will mostly likely only put into that position a person of the same conviction. The vast number of police or members though are pro gun. That's just plain the truth and comes from one that's been there. The head seldom reflects the opinion of his subordinates.
Kurt wrote: """I don't question that the majority of gun owners no doubt are responsible and conscientious. It's the minority that worry me"""
So what are we going to do, take away our rights because of the minority? And yes the minority scare me too and they aren't the ones that are going to go for concealed carry laws because they can't legally own a gun anwway!!!! Do you think for one second that any gang member in this country can get a concealed carry permit? Somewhere along the line you have to make a sincere differentation between the rights of law abiding citizens and the rights of criminals. It's not fair to take away our rights because of the behavior of criminals.
Suppose we use your logic when it comes to cars. There are those people that insist on driving drunk and they kill people. Many of them can't and don't have a valid drivers license. But because people are killed by drunk drivers I know that we can eliminate the killing of innocent people by outlawing the use of cars. We will ban all cars. Then no one can kill them. In addition statistics show that the peak for safe drivers is around 55 years of age. So let's thing about taking away the right to drive for those older than 55. If this logic sound foolish, it's because it is. But this is essentiall what so many people do with guns.
One more thought. If and I think it will probably happen that guns will be eventually outlawed. I will guarantee you that a new business will be established in the form of an illegal market for guns just like the drugs. The only problem will be that the only one dealing in guns will be the criminals. And as every business goes, this one would grow and eventually I'm confident that it would include military weapons. Weapons far more dangerous than what our criminals have now.
Well that is my answer to you. If you ever took the time to be honestly involved in a gun club and get into organized competitive shooting you would come away with a completely different opinion of guns. And if you did and get good enough to compete at the Nationals in Camp Perry, you would be amazed at the people and their professionalism. And your image of the typical American gun owner would be forever changed. You typical view of an American gun owner would become one of them being the exception.
thanks for the time you take to read this
Dennis
I hope those like Kilroi1 who worry about the extremely small risk of a bear attack will gather a some information before planning to use their concealed handguns to defend themselves against a bear. If you're really concerned about a bear attack, here are two suggestions: (1) educate yourself about proper outdoor behavior to avoid most problems with bears in the first place; (2) keep your handgun in a safe place and carry and know how to use bear pepper spray for the rare cases when defensive measures are needed.
An excellent summary of the subject is found in a U.S. Fish and Wildlife article, "Bear Spray vs. Bullets - Which Offers Better Protection?" The full text is found at this link, but here's an excerpt:
If this rule change for guns holds up, it would be both tragic and ironic if it leads to people being killed or injured in an extremely rare bear attack, simply because they used a handgun in a situation where it is not the safe or appropriate response. Are some people counting on a handgun to keep them safe from a bear attack? Read the previous comments on this site for the answer.
WOW! I did not know the thousands of local,state and federal agent's and police officers,who usually have more than one firearm in the home,have such high rates of shooting accidents, suicides and homicides in thier homes. Being raised in the home of a peace officer,I am suprised that my family and I are still around in light of the Brady info.
Victory for Human Rights! We can now carry in National Parks legally.
Hooray!
I carry a weapon in my fanny pack each time I take my kids hiking. Pragmatically, it is impossible for the NPS people to protect me and my children. I'll continue to do so and when we pass each other on the trail you'll see nothing but a big smile and a 'how ya doin' from me and the kids. You won't have any reason to fear me or feel threatened.