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Sounds like a camping fee disguised as a reservation fee. Is anyone else here feeling like the NPS would prefer to decrease visitation to the backcountry of all NPS areas?
Doesn't that prove its not a "Reservation" fee. Its a camping fee. Right or wrong - call it what it is.
EC, you're claiming a false victory. You pay the fee to reserve a permit to camp in the backcountry, as the language Sara cited clearly states: "A $20 permit fee is assessed for each permit. This includes a $6 service fee which is required for each permit reserved."
How isn't it a reservation fee?
And if you try to duck that fee and simply wander into the wilderness area, what happens if you get caught without a permit? Odds are you get booted out and possible cited. The park sets limits on how many people can overnight in the backcountry and work to keep track by requiring folks to check in.
So what? Being a spectator is free to either. Oh and BTW - there is a limit on the # of Ride the Rockies riders. Not to mention they pay $495 to ride, unless you want the special package at $2,500.
Thanks Sara - so the $20 isn't a "Reservation" fee.
Say Sara, if you are up to the risk of being investigated by the DOJ for leaks, can you get us a link to the detail proposal for the Pro Challange in CONM?
Sara the fact finder comes through yet again! Thanks.
This is what it says on recreation.gov when you look at the fee policy for Fire Island:
"A $20.00 permit fee is assessed for each permit. This includes a $6.00 service fee which is required for each permit reserved."
My best guess is that the $6 service fee goes to the NRRS contractor, ReserveAmerica, as $14 is refundable if you cancel.
ec, you don't have to specifically ask for an entitlement. Your very attitude demonstrates that you don't ask. You demand.
If you don't understand my comment, read yours again.
And our current mayor is a Republican who saw the light after his predecessor caved in to the race pushers. (Who may not be much different than other kinds of pushers.)
You say you would be against the race if you saw or heard from anyone who will acknowledge cost to the NPS. Perhaps if you'd open your eyes or ears you'd see and hear what the rest of are witnesssing.
It struck me last night that this entire debate has devolved into an excellent analogy for what's happening in Congress right now. Some people who are trying to find sensible solutions to vexing problems are being outshouted by a few very noisy ones who spend their time obfuscating, delaying, twisting, dodging and trying to prevent anything productive or that might benefit more than a few powerfully wealthy organizations or individuals who insist on gaining short term profit over long term policies that may prevent destruction of good things.
With all due respect, I acknowledge that no matter how wrong you may be, you will never be able to see the light because you will continue -- for whatever reason -- to cover your eyes and ears. All I can do is continue to hope that there will be enough Americans who will recognize the fallacy of that approach and continue to fight against it. They once handed one heck of a surprise to a fella named Mitt because he tried the same thing.
They call that John Q disease in these parts.
FYI,
The Pro Challenge is a professional race with a limit as to who can enter (professional bicyclists).
The Ride the Rockies Tour is not professional and is not a race and has no limit as to who can enter (entry is by lottery to anyone, not just professional cyclists).
So, you are comparing apples to oranges, here.
Commercialism has nothing to do with the decision to permit one and not the other. The scope of each event is completely different; one is open to the public and for pleasure, the other is closed to the public and for profit.
I dont believe this place is worthy of the upgrade. I've spent some time here, and I just feel that it is a smaller version of Cathedral Valley in Capitol Reef.
Lately, it seems like a lot of places are trying to get their national wilderness lands or national monuments upgraded to National Parks, and my concern is that a lot of these lands are not worthy of the designation, and it cheapens the overall brand.
Cuyahoga National Park was the start of the cheapening of the brand in my opinion. That area is just a glorified state park, and when you compare it to the grandeur of a place like the Smokies, or Glacier, or the Grand Canyon it is not even on the same level in terms of the amount of wilderness, and the amount of protected natural features. I feel that Colorado National Monument should stay a national monument. Yes, it's beautiful. Yes it has some flora and fauna biodiversity that is typical of the region. BUt it is not vast enough or significant enough to stand up there in the National Park realm.
Since ecbuck has retrieved this story, here's a recent Op-ed from Isle Royale biologists on the issue of wolf re-introduction:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/opinion/save-the-wolves-of-isle-royale-national-park.html
Thank you Scott Merritt, right on.
Nicely said, indeed, Scott Merritt.
More inconvenience:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22567023
Thanks, Scott. Nicely said :-)
I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I'm going to say it costs more because it's New York. They will charge what the market will bear. Anyone who has ever traveled to New York knows everything is more expensive there. Not just the city but the whole state.
I hereby give my full support to the organizations who give full support to the redesignation of CNM to CNP with the one caveat that as a part owner of the public land I am granted full veto power over these organizations who would like to be granted full veto power. I also have an additional 350 events per year planned for CNM/P that may or may not make money but are good, honest, wholesome commercial ventures that promote stuff that I like and will only require some part of the M/P to be closed but only on those 350 days and only for limited times. Events for week 1 will get us kicked off with a skateboarding race, a wild west equestrian ride, a soapbox derby, a model train show, a romance novels clubs street crawl, a Baptist scooter slolom, and an all atheist bicycle ride. This will introduce a lot more people to the M/P which necessarily means we will see even more support for the area because mass visits always guarantee awareness and awakening. With any luck they will also put some serious thought into supporting their new found treasure with full veto support so we can keep things in such perfect harmonious balance. See u at the races/demonstrations/exhibitions soon! Bring your support and veto quills!
Do you have to make a reservation at Fire Island - or can you not pay the fee and take the chance the site might be full? If you can't do that, then its not a "reservation" fee but a camping fee and should be named as such.
This is just a guess, could it be more and more parks are turning to "reservation" fees to off-set a lack of federal dollars? After all, it does cost to staff backcountry offices, sort through and approval reservations, and maintain backcountry trails, campsites, and latrines.
As for the $20 vs $4, the $20 fee is for processing your permit application. There is no daily/nightly fee once you're out in Fire Island's backcountry. At the Smokies, there is no general reservation fee per se, and the fees are capped at $20 per person whether you stay out five nights or seven (treks of more than 7 nights would require an additional permit, however).
$20?? Why would it cost $20 at Fire Islands and only $4 at GSMNP? Won't they be using the same system? Sounds like they are using the term "Reservation Fee" to back door something else.
I don't have a clue what that is suppossed to mean.
Showing your ignorance once again Lee. Our Mayor is an avowed socialists, there isn't a conservative bone in his body and most the rest of council is not far behind.
And I will say again. If the cost to the NPS wasn't covered by the race organizers or sponsors, then I would be against it. I haven't seen anyone involved in the process indicate that is the case. That isn't in the list of reasons given for turning it down.
Oh and BTW, I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your claim that I have asked for entitlements. More empy claims and accusations.
It just never ends with Jarvis NPS. the Feefdom of our NPS. Hail to the Feef.
The Tour of Utah (another UCI-sanctioned professional bike race) just announced last week their venue towns for the 2013 edition in August. There will be a stage finishing in Torrey - and it looks like that the stage will take UT12 all the way from the Panguitch area straight through Bryce Canyon NP, Grand Staircase-Escalante NM and up the Boulder plateau to Torrey. Another stage starts at Brian Head resort and I can imagine (and hope for) a side trip to Cedar Breaks NM on the way to Cedar City.
So in Utah this thing is happening already.
Back in the 80's the good ol' Coors Classic featured already Colorado NM's Rim Rock Drive - impressive images.
While I understand the concerns of everyone opposing the passage of the Tour of Colorado through Colorado NM - I'm not so sure for myself - I think that people do highly overestimate the impact of the event. The NM will not be closed for the day. The race will pass through the park in less then an hour. There will be road closures before and after, but not more than half a day. Which gives all other park visitors enough time to explore the park before/after the race. And in the meantime how about getting on your feet and hitting some trails in the NM? Closed road doesn't mean closed trails...
So all three of the people you spoke to are beggars? What do their cardboard signs say?
What about the rest of the townfolk?
At least a couple of Colorado towns have honest and sensible leadership that learned the hard way and refuse to repeat their mistake:
Still, both Durango and Boulder passed on hosting gigs for the Aug. 19-25 race next year.
Durango City Manager Ron LeBlanc said it was "a business decision." Durango budgeted $560,000 for the race - including $300,000 in sponsorship support, but not including wages for 620 police and security personnel. Yet the city saw less than half of the expected crowds for the start of the weeklong, 683-mile race.
"The incremental impact, with similar costs and resources, would likely be minimal," LeBlanc said. "How many additional countries or potential visitors would we reach? We'd need a similar commitment of resources. We still have T-shirts from this year."
But in some places, there are always enough fools who can be fooled easily by people waving dollars in front of them. Ah, well. I guess that's conservative socialism at work.