Recent comments

  • First Piping Plovers, Now Sea Turtles Descend on Cape Hatteras National Seashore   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Want to see something silly? Look at what the CONsent decree says has to happen on Sept 15;

    26. After September 15 all remaining unhatched turtle
    nests, once they reach their hatch window, shall be protected by
    full beach closures, in addition to the fencing methodology
    described in the Interim Strategy.

    At midnite Sept 14 the rules of common sense change. The full beach will be closed dune to surf. No human may pass this closure, not by walking or driving. Is it that the turtles want to go into the dunes to play with the gulls & raccoons? The turtles want to go for a swim, they don't want to use the high beach.

    The "fencing methodology" is a black 'silt' fence material. It is errected around the back side of the nests and a trench is dug to get this fence down into the sand. This traps overwashing seawater forcing it back onto the turtle nest on every wave. That is brilliant, normal overwash disipates over the beach except for here. Here the water is trapped around the nest to make sure these turtles have the hardest time possible hatching. What Aududon and Defenders have done here should be outlawed everywhere else for the sake of the critters they (sic) are said to protect. Yea, we can tell the best minds did not participate in designing this decree.

  • First Piping Plovers, Now Sea Turtles Descend on Cape Hatteras National Seashore   5 years 33 weeks ago



    "It's actually the state of North Carolina and the FWS who oppose moving turtle nests and with good reason."

    I'm a bit puzzled by your response. Who gave permission for moving 11 of 17 nests in Pea Island NWR? I would guess the NPS, USFWS and the State of NC. Also, I think I covered the more important reasons for not moving and when it is possible to do so. Those reasons being incubation temp's relative to sex determination as well as the 9-hour "air bubble window". I'm sure there are a myriad more.

    If the USFWS and NC oppose the moving of nests, then who sanctioned these moves?

    Can you please expand on your "good reason" statement?

  • 4-Year-old Dies in Fall off South Rim of Grand Canyon   5 years 33 weeks ago

    i think its the parks fault. they need to make sure that the park is secure not just for children, but for everyone. the grand canyon is a huge cliff and if anyone lost their balance or anything else they need a fence or something to keep them from falling off. i mean they shouldnt even allow people to be that close to the edge.

  • Presidential Politics and the National Parks   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Ahh, Ted, you dare to embark on the debate over the meaning of "conserve" v. "preserve."

    When placed in the context of the national parks, as I'm sure you're well aware, that's a minefield. Perhaps more so when you look at the Organic Act and its reference to "conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired...(emphasis added.)

    If one is really to leave the parks unimpaired, shouldn't the mission be to "preserve" as opposed to "conserve"?

    That said, there are better minds than mine to kick that idea around.

  • Presidential Politics and the National Parks   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Good wrap-up, Kurt!

    The quote that you extract from the Democratic Party draft platform uses the word "conserve" for non-Park lands, and "protect" for the Parks. It then segues back to "conserve", in mentioning millions of new acres for hunting & fishing. Nowhere in this passage do we see "preserve", and that may be significant.

    Acknowledging, as you do, that this is a very general statement lacking specifics, had I read the same words credited to the GOP, I would have shrugged, nodded noncommittally, and given it passing marks as reflecting the interests of rural conservatives.

    "Conservation" and "Preservation" are the two key words in environmentalism. To conserve denotes multiple uses, and accepts imperfection. We "conserve" our Nat'l Forests, while logging them at the same time. We "conserve" elk-populations on public lands, while hunting them, thinning them if necessary, and feeding them if we think that enables multiple goals.

    To "preserve" is to reduce or eliminate multiple uses, and to focus on the single goal of unmodified natural habitat, "untouched". Preservation is the preferred policy-term for today's dominant environmentalist factions, especially for Park lands. Nonetheless, conservationist-environmentalists have made large contributions to our habitat-base, and wield meaningful political influence.

    This platform-statement reads like it was substantially guided by conservation-principles, rather than preservation-ideals.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    It seems to me that the action by park service and courts simply effects the restoration of a historical site to its original condition.

  • The Economist Warns that America’s National Park System is in Deep, Deep Trouble   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Kirby et al,

    An important part of my reaction to concerns expressed here on the National Parks Traveler that we are at risk of 'Shock & Awe' development in the Parks, stems from my experience with Olympic Nat'l Park. I have only superficial & spotty exposure to other Parks.

    For those who know the Olympic situation, worries about amusement park-style commercial ventures in Parks across the nation are something of a head-scratcher. "Really?"

    There is no sign of the slightest tolerance for any rinky-dink Tiki bars on the Queets River, nor anything of the sort anywhere else. Exactly the opposite: the Park is unrelentingly hostile to all in-holders, with especially intense animus for businesses of any sort. The unit management have been pressuring all concessionaires throughout my lifetime (and before), and when they finally 'break' them, they close & raze the facilities.

    For those who do not know, the Olympic Park hosts one of the highest-profile hydroelectric dam and reservoir-lake removal projects in the United States (or world). The Elwah River (draining the north-central Olympic Peninsula & Park) contains two dams, one within the Park. Both totally block salmon-migration (A really stupid (I daresay, "criminal") oversight ... or, was it purposeful - to take the salmon away from the Elwah Tribe?).

    Both Elwah dams are slated for removal, quite soon. This will be a historic project that will receive high media coverage. Congressional funding has been approved.

    There is zero prospect of a dam on the Queets. Nor anywhere else in the Park (or even outside it). Dams are totally yesteryear - certainly in this part of the nation.

    New roads? Better paving? No sign of it. No, the Park closes roads, dawdles for long periods to fix serious damage, then leaves the roadway in a condition that clearly communicates, "Please realize, we maintain this road at all, only under protest. We hate it, and it will be gone at the first excuse we can find".

    That is the reality in Olympic Nat'l Park. In 50 years, the only new facilities I know about in the northern & western parts of the Park, have been a few new toll-shacks in the roads. I am not quite saturation-familiar with the eastern & southern Park - but I have never heard of anything supporting new business anywhere in Olympic. Any attempt to say, develop a little in-holder parcel on the Queets River into a cute tourist-trap would meet a raging, fire-breathing dragon in the Park bureaucracy. No fooling.

    The Park itself develop new tourist venues? That's a ha-ha.

  • First Piping Plovers, Now Sea Turtles Descend on Cape Hatteras National Seashore   5 years 33 weeks ago

    It's actually the state of North Carolina and the FWS who oppose moving turtle nests and with good reason.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    OK. Let's have a little fun. What spelling/grammatical errors have you spotted on signs in parks. I'll start. There's a sign at Pt. Dume, Malibu, California (a state beach) which talks about the sea life clinging to the rocks as 'muscles'. Now unless Arnold himself is down on the shore, the spelling should be 'mussels'. I'm always surprised that no one spell checks these things before money is spent building and installing the signs.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Have you read the horrible grammar that is on the brass plaque that was left on the coast of California by Sir Francis Drake? I don't think I would change that either. And, while I agree with Rangertoo, I've noticed that some governmental agency went through all the historical highway markers and put a metal tag over "the N-word" censoring the descriptions of Mark Twain's character in Huckleberry Finn. You can easily discern what used to be acceptable in the 50s and the poor attempt to correct it. Replace the whole sign! Oops, I think I just argued for parity.

  • Presidential Politics and the National Parks   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Thanks, Kurt! Check out the ads here: or watch a video production of Sam Waterson's radio PSA created by a Law&Order fan.

    The polling results demonstrate that national parks are a key positioning issue for candidates; they help to define a candidate’s character in a positive way, reflecting a forward-looking agenda that embraces what is best about America. In the following memos posted on NPCA's website for public access, the pollsters offer counsel to candidates, campaigns and consultants as to why Democrats and Republicans should talk about the national parks, and how to do it effectively. Let's hope they do.

    Memo to Republican candidates, campaigns and consultants here:

    Memo to Democratic candidates, campaigns and consultants here:

    Andrea Keller
    National Parks Conservation Association

  • First Piping Plovers, Now Sea Turtles Descend on Cape Hatteras National Seashore   5 years 33 weeks ago

    It is indeed a fact that in the CHNSRA, Post-CD, all nests within the 50-day window require full beach closures for a certain distance either side of the nest to ORV’s and in some cases pedestrians as well. The reason for this is: Tire tracks make it difficult for the hatchlings to reach the sea after hatching. That makes sense, but here’s the kicker: Beaches are closed from 10PM until 6AM. Turtles only hatch at night, so ORV’s are out of the picture during the hatching event. As to the tire track scenario, a two-man crew armed with garden rakes and 15 minutes of time could make the stretch of beach in front of any nest flat as a pancake, allowing for daytime passage of ORV’s. This could be accomplished by civilian stewards, the NPS rangers themselves, Audobon Society volunteers, or pro-access group volunteers. Pro-access folks have been symbolically lining up to volunteer for such a detail, and other services such as nest sitting as well. The question of such volunteerism has been suggested to Spt. Murray, but no final answer has come down. However, there is a very realistic fear that the SELC et al will not endorse it, as civilian volunteers are not “trained” in such areas. It’s pretty much an all-or-nothing mindset for those guys.

    There’s also the fact that on Pea Island NWR to the north, 11 of 17 turtle nests were moved to make way for an upcoming dredging/sand replenishment operation on the South side of Oregon Inlet. Nests are not moved in the CHNSRA, even in light of the Pea Island situation. Nests that are directly adjacent to access ramps could be moved to previously closed areas away from beach routes, allowing for more miles of access/through routes to adjacent ramps. Why can nests be moved in an area <30 miles distant, but not in the CHNSRA?

    The most prevalent explanations for not moving nests are that with all reptile eggs, incubation temperatures dictate sex of the hatchlings. Also, turtle eggs contain an air bubble within the egg that the embryo uses to breathe during gestation. The air bubble attaches itself to the top of the egg nine hours after hatching, so any moves of nests must be done within this 9-hour window.

    Every morning in the pre-dawn, NPS Rangers ride ATV’s down the coast in search of newly laid nests. Once found, they are temporarily roped off by the ranger on the ATV, thus protecting them from any intrusions. The decision as to the possibility of moving nests in dangerous areas could be made at this time. Dangerous areas could include high-traffic areas and areas known for high levels of predation.

    Nests are moved regularly in all areas of the world that the loggerhead chooses to nest in. There is one blatant exception: They are NOT being moved in certain parts of the CHNSRA, which are currently being controlled by Audobon Society mandates.

  • The Economist Warns that America’s National Park System is in Deep, Deep Trouble   5 years 33 weeks ago

    To me, this isn't about whether Frank can get to his solitude now, but whether his children or grandchildren will have that option. It's a fact that a majority (vast majority, in many cases) of the land in each park is wild, kidless, and free of anthropocentric sound. Take Ted's beloved Olympic. There are about 5 or 6 places, each the size of a soccer field or two, that everyone gathers. And Olympic is gigantic. It takes 7 or 8 hours to drive around the thing at 50 mph. Even tight little parks like Acadia provide shelter from the masses with a quick trip off-trail. Finding solitude now isn't the issue. The problem is the fact that wilderness is not entertaining, kid-safe, or user-friendly. Thus, the screaming masses that speak with their wallets in the cafeterias detest wilderness. The more wilderness that is converted to tourist-friendly land, the better off the parks will be - financially, if not morally. If I was in need of a thousand-dollar medicine to save my life and had not a penny to my name, you might find me holding up a convenience store. Likewise, I believe it's prudent to be wary of the behavior of the NPS should its financial woes worsen.

    Ted, I went hiking up the Queets valley a couple weeks ago. Neither words nor pictures can do justice to that place. But I'm also picturing the slope at the trailhead being a waterslide that shoots out the river. They'll be lifeguards there of course. ( I almost drowned fording it on the way out.) The gravel bar between the Sam's and Queets will have a little Tiki Bar. I can see the dollar signs now. We'll need to pave the road in, of course. The winter floods might be a problem. Perhaps a dam up near Service Falls. That canyon could hold a lot of water...

    That's the nightmare I have every time I hear the parks aren't entertaining enough.

  • First Piping Plovers, Now Sea Turtles Descend on Cape Hatteras National Seashore   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Nice to see that Cape Hatteras is finally doing what it needs to to protect wildlife at the seashore. It's been overrun by 4x4s for far too long.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    I think some comments are missing the point. This is not prosecution for correcting a typo, it is prosecution for damaging a historic resource. (Yes, "a" historic). The plaque is part of the original building design. more than 60 years old, and is hand lettered. We would expect the NPS to prosecute anyone who damages a historic sign, typo or not. There are many grammatical errors on the civil war monuments at Gettysburg fro example. Would we allow people to "correct" those? The Declaration of Independence contains grammatical errors and I can guarantee you that one would be prosecuted for making pen and ink changes to that document. The NPS is doing its job.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago


    All that remains of Jeff Deck's website can be found here. However, if you read the attachment I provided, it contains some screen shots of the site as well as verbiage from it.

    Thanks for your thoughts on this, Doug.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    As I used your post as a reference in mine, I figured I should alert you about my take on the situation, which can be read here:

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Kurt, was there an editorial or typographic oversight in this post? ;-)

    I read, 'Yada, yada yada' ...

    "... explains one section of the web site."
    ... but I don't see a link to it. What website?

    Is this website the home of the "Typo Eradication Advancement League", referred to earlier in the post? I had thought the name was in mockery of the vandals. But maybe not?

    Here's my take on the story: Anybody cognizant of the treatment of errors in historical documents knows that errors are preserved and notation made (if appropriate) to warn the unwary ([sic], etc). And, anyone with a valid concern for grammar knows we can only make improvements going forward: the past is both out of reach, and irrelevant (for these purposes).

    Did you see the recent news that researchers reported that eating watermelon has a physiological effect similar to viagra? In the days immediately preceding the 4th of July? That's what I think these two were up to: Searching for a gimmick to attract attention to themselves (and maybe a website).

    ... Or, did you see my photographs of the 500 pound Bigfoot that I & a buddy backpacked a day and a half out of the hills in one piece? Go to my website:

  • Glacier National Park Officials Plan to Scale Down Search for Missing Hiker   5 years 33 weeks ago

    Best wishes to Yi-Jien Hwa and his family. I had the opportunity to hang with a group of Malaysian climbers in Nepal- they were most accomodating and it has remained a fond memory ever since. As a Montanan, I hope for the best in this difficult situation.


  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    There is only one thing that bugs me more than typos and that is someone with built-in spellcheck that highlights the typos by making corrections on the printed material with bold markers or white out. You can't find the original authors most of the time and you loose the original flavor. [Ed. Here at Traveler we do make typo corrections to make sure that the intended meaning is conveyed. We don't otherwise mess with typos. For example, I have not corrected the typo in Ron's comment (loose instead of lose) because it doesn't confuse anybody.]

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    This is INSANE. This kind of thing is why I hate the Parks system. I love the parks, but the system and the self righteous, jerks that work there can go to Hades.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    I understand the punishment. Regardless of the grammatical improvement, it is most probably vandalism. I am concerned, however, that park officials reinserted what was deleted. I wonder what their thinking was: Let's correct the vandalism by restoring the grammatical errors?

  • The Economist Warns that America’s National Park System is in Deep, Deep Trouble   5 years 33 weeks ago


    I believe the real idea behind making Parks, that made making Parks (etc) a Great Idea, was the notion to preserve the physical resource itself. Why is the physical preservation of an area a Great Idea? Because it is a concept that many people can relate & resonate to ... and can agree upon.

    In this view, anything that physically alters the preserved resource is to be avoided, while conditions that do not change the resource, but may irritate some visitors, are of lesser or no importance.

    Have there indeed been those figures (as you quote) who championed the subjective experience of a person who is not being 'bothered' by other persons? Yes, of course. But these notions are not what made the Parks-idea a Great Idea.

    I do not confuse or confabulate road-building etc (a physical change) with non-physical, transient conditions such the presence of a crowd, or shouting, dashing, excited children. And neither should anyone else. Physical alterations of the preserved area are one thing, and subjective but non-physical conditions are another.

    I wish nobody had to endure the urban onslaught that you describe in your life, Frank (I shudder) ... though I also know there are those who find it stimulating & satisfying. My empathy is with your plight ... but I cannot concur that because the urban living situation is stressful for some of us, the Parks ought to therefore be defined as "quiet space". Not as a priority.

    Parks are properly - in my view - "natural space". If people whooping it up don't alter the "nature" that inhabits the space, then my irritation at their revelry is really just a 'personal problem'.

    Almost unavoidably, attempting to define Parks in terms of "silence and solitude", etc, is to exclude people from the public resource, for no other reason than to create ... an absence of people. Well, strictly speaking, who is to enjoy this solitude: how are we to say, "All you people, stay out, so this one person can have solitude"? Everyone: silence please.

    No. That is not the route to the solution desired by those who feel stressed and want an 'escape'.

    But the solitude they seek does exist. Both SaltSage236 and myself have described it forthrightly. Get off the roads. Get away from the campgrounds. Walk. Away from the trailhead: then, away from the trail.

    There is silence that ROARS right through you ... with the seething horde pulsating through their migration-routes & water-holes elsewhere. There is solitude that will CRUSH you, while the crowd-addicts get their fix at the usual opium dens ... elsewhere.

    Please, re-read SaltSage236' comment that begins, "Thank God national parks often have...", and my reply to him/her, which begins, "SaltSage236; You are really so right! I felt silly...". You will see in these two comments, that we both consider the values you seek to be a central part of our own value-system. The only difference is, we go out and get them ... right through & past the madding crowd.

    What you want, Frank, is out there ... but you must go where it is, not where it isn't.

  • Grammar Vigilantes Busted in Grand Canyon National Park, Barred from Park System   5 years 33 weeks ago

    $3,035.00 for a hand-rendered sign? Who is the criminal?

  • The Economist Warns that America’s National Park System is in Deep, Deep Trouble   5 years 33 weeks ago

    I disagree with Ted absolutely. Search for "national park" + "national park" "quiet contemplation" on Yahoo!, and you'll get 15,200 results. Search for "national park" + solitude and you'll get over 1.5 million results.

    Solitude and silence are a necessary component of national park preservation.

    The Badlands mission statement mentions providing the opportunity for quiet contemplation.

    Mather stated, "We must guard against the intrusion of roads into sections that should forever be kept for quiet contemplation and accessible only by horseback or hiking."

    Donald J. Berry, Assistant Secretary for FWS testified that, "Snowmobiling generates significant levels of air and noise pollution, often results in the harassment of wildlife, and conflicts with other visitors' quest for solitude and introspection in our park system."

    Senator Dianne Feinstein wrote, "Quiet contemplation of pristine environments is, for many people, an integral part of the experience of visiting National Parks, and the National Park Service’s policies should be geared toward minimizing noise."

    The National Parks and Conservation Association, in written testimony for Congress, stated "It seems logical to conclude . . . the need to preserve places relatively unimpaired by certain human activities that might detract from the experience of those visitors who wish to experience the park as the Voyageurs did, in a wilderness-like setting free from the roar of snowmobiles and motorboats. Some areas of silence and solitude are crucial for providing this type of opportunity for visitors."

    Then there is John Miller's plea to preserve Crater Lake's silence: "The plan is now to build, have the government build, a drive around the lake, so that all these points may be considered in a single day from a carriage. And a great hotel is planned! And a railroad must be made to whisk you through the life-and-vigor giving evergreen forest of Arden. Well, so be it, if you must so mock nature and break the hush and silence of a thousand centuries. . ."

    Noise of crying babies, jet aircraft, motorized boats, cars, Harleys, snowmobiles, car alarms, crowds, do more than "offend the dignity of some" and are more than "irritants ... of personal perception". They ruin the ability of people to enjoy solitude and silence in national parks (even in some of the remotest areas), and I believe that is a main reason why national parks were created in the first place and are needed now more than ever.

    I live in the city and someone is building a monstrous building across from my house. During the day, I must endure shouting construction workers, hammering, and the incessant beeping of heavy equipment. When I visit national parks, I do so to escape this urban hell and to get away from anything I can experience in the city.

    I contend that noise and noisy entertainment and noisy visitors in national parks are in fact harmful, contrary to Ted's assertion. They threaten fundamental principals national parks were based upon: quiet contemplation and solitude. They make it so that no one can escape the drudgery of modern, "civilized", urban life, and this noise pollution tarnishes the purpose of national parks. We wouldn't defend most forms of pollution in our national parks, so why is noise pollution dismissed as simply a matter of personal perception?

    Back to the thread: more entertainment in national parks will lead to increased noise pollution.