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Snowybird: Whaaaaaat??? What kinda mumbo-jumbo is that??
Anon:
Your comments are reality in the face. Death that stalks in beautiful places like Yosemite is to find your soul in the creation of dawn.
People die. I'd rather fall off Half Dome than die of a coronary in my cubicle or in a twisted pile of tons of metal and plastic on an interstate highway.
People die. Why the morbid fascination with death in national parks?
The eyewitness accounts of the man who fell to his death from the Half Dome cables (via the link) were truly chilling. A very tragic sight for his children to see. But as to what the NPS will (note I'm not saying should) do? That depends. If this man's family files a wrongful death lawsuit against the NPS and wins a substantial amount of money, the cables will be taken down permanently. Unlike the cliffs and waterfalls, the NPS puts up those cables each spring and since they aren't a natural feature of the park and since the NPS is responsible for them, the NPS is liable if the presence of the cables themselves created a dangerous situation. I'm not saying whether that's just or right or what should happen. I'm just saying that that is what will happen. The NPS strapped for cash as it is, won't want to have a line in the budget for million dollar verdicts for falls from the cables. The cables will go.
Survival of the fittest. Hiking the trail is optional and there are plenty of warning signs. Until people stop hiking unprepared (I met one person on Angels landing who hiked it with 16 OUNCES of water in 110 degree heat), people will continue to be at risk. Nature can be dangerous, people (but not as dangerous as driving). Don't like it, stay home.
I'm having second thoughts about this hike, I have wanted to do for the past couple of years now. I belong to an online Zion group and read posts from people daily about Zion in general.
It was sad to read about this fatality. Then so much sadder to read a post a few days later by Mr Goldstein's sister as she happened upon this group in her struggle to understand how this happened to her brother as family watched in horror.
When I climbed Angel's Landing I did so without touching the chains (much to my chagrin there were a couple places where the chain was right where I wanted a handhold). I wanted to take the climb on its own terms, and was extremely cautious--probably much more cautious than someone walking along holding the chains. Do the chains actually make the climb more dangerous by allowing complacency and enticing inexperienced hikers?
When you look at the climb itself, you know where you are getting into. My opinion, be your better judge and know your own limitations in combination with the local conditions. No matter how well you might keep people from doing things. When you say something is not allowed and there are no guards, usually that is what people are going to do, just because it is not allowed. And posting guards at every possible hazzardous place is no option in any park. I agree with Kath, post obvious and plain signs. A prewarned person might be double carefull.
WE WERE REAFTING IN DURANGO, COLORADO ON JUNE 2, 2007 ON THE ANIMAS RIVER WHEN OUR RAFT TURNED OVER IN THE RApids. EVERYONE WENT INTO THE RIVER, AND WE NEARLY DROWNED. I WAS TRAPPED UNDER THE OVERTURNED RAFT, AND MY HUSBAND WAS SWEPT DOEN THE RIVER. WE WERE ALL RESCUED, BUT IT WAS THE MOST FRIGHTENING MOMENT OF MY LIFE!! THE RAFTING COMPANY TOOK IT VERY LIGHTLY!!!! WE WILL NEVER BE TRUSTING ENOUGH OF A RAFTING COMPANY TO TRY IT again.!!
Thanks, Kurt, for your generous coverage of the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore in Sunday and Monday’s posts. I’m pleased to say that Sunday the grand reopening of the Raspberry Island Light, which you pictured, went exceptionally well despite Lake Superior’s best efforts to make things difficult!
In your post about the National Parks of Lake Superior Foundation you raise, appropriately, the question of when does the intended “margin of excellence” actually become a replacement for necessary, but missing, operational funds? Both the board of the NPLSF and the 4 superintendents struggle with this because no matter how we define it, the things we can do with the grants the new organization provides simply wouldn’t happen without those funds. Should I, as the park superintendent spend the money on the most important unfunded needs, or should I only use if for “extras”? I think the fact that we talk about this and wrestle with this openly is actually a good sign, and I believe each of the parks has thus far found an appropriate balance point.
One thing that makes a real positive difference is that the board of the NPLSF has come to the park superintendents and said, in effect, “How can we help?” “What are the park’s priorities you’d like our assistance with?" We’ve just signed a formal agreement where all parties have agreed to abide by the ethical and fundraising rules established by law and NPS policy. I have no worry with this group that they’ll try to influence park priorities or park policies.
It’s true, as Larry Epke points out, that the NPLSF web site isn’t much more than a shell at this point. That’s reality with a start-up volunteer organization. I’m sure they’d welcome a talented volunteer to make it hum. (Contact me if need be!) I hope that nobody is discouraged from contributing due to the web site. If anyone can get Lake Superior Magazine, each issue for the last year has had an excellent full-page write-up on the group’s activities, thanks to the support of the publishers. Unfortunately, none of that is on line either.
Lastly, in answer to the question about national parks and national monuments: a national park must be established by an act of Congress. National monuments can be established by a stroke of the president’s pen. Usually, national parks are larger but not always. Both kinds of NPS areas are subject to the same laws and regulations.
Bob Krumenaker
Superintendent
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
my heart goes out to the family- Angels landing is to be the highlight of my own honeymoon vacation- though i am considering not climbing angels now- it seems a lot more dangerous than anticipated and though having experienced ridge scrambling in scotland and wales i am having second thoughts- k
The park service can't station someone at the trail head to do 10 second physical fitness tests. It would leave the service really wide open to liability not only for falls but also for ADA violations. NPS Rangers aren't have no medical training to determine who is and who isn't fit enough to make the grade or to determine who is subject to dizziness or balance problems, etc. etc.
The only thing the NPS can or should do would be to put up extremely graphic simply worded warning signs or close the area entirely to hiking.
Just this week a motorcyclist died in Grand Teton. That's the only one this year, but that's one more motor vehicle death than bear death. If one looks at stories about it, there were still several more bear stories, even in the relatively modest Grand Teton case than in the death of the motorcyclist. We have no idea how many have been injured in motor vehicle accidents to date. We know that in bear cases in Grand Teton there has been one.
And, now a young boy was killed in his tent in Utah by a black bear, which is even rarer. Again, that will garner more press than the car accidents. Random crimes always are scarier for people because people think they can somehow control events. A plane crash will always get more press than a car crash. Yet, the statistics point actually with cars (and guns as well) that incidents with them are so large that there is something else wrong. I don't like the approach to solutions on these issues, but I think we should think of these things, like car accidents, as more dangerous and more unpredictable because as much as we think we can control our cars, the incidents are still so high. It means we have almost no handle on what might happen the way we for the most part do with bears (or even airplanes).
"3. Give the public an "inside view" of all the diverse professions working in the parks to preserve the "best" examples of natural and cultural history. Such information could help attract applicants for jobs in the parks."
What jobs?
Their website needs help. There apparently is no way to contribute except through the mail. That's SO 20th Century!
Iam wondering what the differnce is between a "national park" and "national monumnet"?
Why are bear attacks in national parks (which happen infrequently) given more press than serious and fatal auto accidents (which happen more frequently)? Sensationalism? Is this blog fueling the hype?
Do you really need a "well regulated militia" in the National Parks? Is your right to self-defense denied because you cannot carry a firearm? Is that really your only means of defense?
Why is the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution trumped when we set foot in a National Park? Was this Teddy Roosevelt’s intention? Why is our right to self-defense denied?
I'll second the endorsement of Apostle Islands as an outstanding place to visit, but perhaps I'm biased: I spent 12 years at the park, retiring as Park Historian a couple of years ago.
One point I would add: though the lighthouse collection places the park among the "crown jewels" of NPS historic sites, there's a lot more to the archipelago's human heritage than the light stations alone: every single one of these wild and beautiful islands was someone's home or workplace at one time. The legacy of Native Americans, pioneer farmers and fishermen, fur traders and others can still be seen if you know where to look.
Just by chance, I posted an assortment of historical vignettes on my own web page a couple of days ago. If you're interested, just click on my signature below.
Work Life Balance Score
I had employees who routinely worked over 900 hours overtime a year. This approaches the 60 to 80 hour weeks that new attorneys and MD resident's work during the early stages of their careers. (Professions who, unlike park rangers, have 6 figure salaries in their near futures.)
Just a one of many anecdotes that come to mind when I see the NPS rank for Work/Life Balance.
Thanks for posting that Jersu! Can't wait to see the new site.
In a word..."Screw the Olympics"
They have become irrelevant and hypocritical...who cares about the olympics???
tom
I fell terrible for this family - especially the daughter. I hate heights and exposures but I have hiked out to the end of Angel's Landing and several times during that hike I thought "I could turn around now" but I chose to continue. I also saw several people who did turn around or not attempt to hike all the way out. They didn't need someone to tell them to do that - they decided for themselves what they were comfortable doing and that's just what they did. I regularly hike with a guy who I call "Goat" (short for "mountain goat)" because he literally runs up and down and across exposures that I choose not to do. He is comfortable doing those things. Even when I see the ease and grace with which he traverses these areas, I still refuse to do it because I'm not comfortable with it.
I spend a lot of time in canyon country and frequently come upon exposed areas that make me uncomfortable. My solution? Turn back. I don't need the government telling me I shouldn't do it - I'm a big boy and I can decide that for myself.
Do you really think they should post a ranger at the bottom 24/7 to determine who should be allowed to pass? People should be accountable for themselves - I don't believe it is goverment's job to "save people from their own arrogance and stupidity".
As for taking a 1 year old up on someone's back: with the number of kids who are genuinely neglected/mistreated/abused in the U.S. today, I don't think we should devote too much time and resources to chasing down folks who take their children for a hike in a National Park so they can be charged with 'endangering a minor'.
The park should not allow anyone to go up Angel's Landing without the proper equipment (hiking boots, certain amount of water, etc.) There should be minimum standards set and met before going up. A park ranger should approve the ascent at a checkpoint after meeting such requirements. They should at least post a sign stating the equipment needed to make the climb and a picture of the shoes, etc. with a "X" marked through it.
I read where a parent took a 1 year up on his back. That should be outlawed and a person fined for endangering a minor. Really, no children under 16 should be allowed up. If they can't legally drive a car by themselves prior to that age, they most certainly have no business climbing something this dangerous. Why should we have laws and restrictions for Angel's Landing? To save people from their own arrogance and stupidity.
It's a shame people feel they need a thrill or adrenaline rush to "live life".
If you are planning to climb this landing in the future; make sure you have life insurance, your family may need it.
Although I haven't been in Yellowstone in the winter, a friend that has been going to ski camp for years said the restrictions on snowmobiles have made a huge difference in the park. Apparently the number of snowmobiles is limited and only the cleanest and quietest are allowed in with a guide. Thank goodness that these exact same restrictions are being carried on in the new proposal so it won't turn into the circus it was 5 and 10 years ago.