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  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Seems like the general public's lack knowledge of other public lands (at low or no fee levels) is part of the problem. NFS and/or BLM lands surround many of the "crown" parks and have myriad free or low-cost options for recreation. I agree that some national parks are quickly approaching the unaffordable for those of us in the "masses" and many are becoming so commercialized that they are unattractive to visit as well. Some of these parks (like Yellowstone, Yosemite and Rocky Mountain) have a long history of catering to the rich and powerful at the expense of everyone else, and it has only been by concerted effort and federal funding that they became more accessible to the rest of us. The present administration makes no secret of its ambitions to privatize as many government functions as possible, so it's clear that we need to elect members who will work for more equitable, affordable access to public lands.
  • Canaveral Seashore Charges for Turtle Tours   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Canaveral Seashore Charges for Turtle Tours
    Kurt-- Almost among all your posts, this is the most depresssing. I am not blaming the superintendent. People in those positions have to do what they have to do to keep their parks in operation. But charging for interpretive programs really strikes at the heart of what parks are about: helping people understand the world in which we live and the culture of which we are a part. If parks have to charge for these kinds of experiences, then we have commercialized the most important service that parks provide to the American people. Taken to its logical conclusion, we would soon be charging people to watch the bat flight at Carlsbad, an eruption of Old Faithful in Yellowstone, a swamp tromp in Everglades, an American Indian weaving demonstration at Canyon de Chelly, or a tour of the battlefields of Fredericksburg. Doesn't that thought kind of chill you?
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Done that. Requires a back country permit which at busy times you have to get well in advance. There can be no spur of the moment trips anymore to Yosemite, Yellowstone, Sequoia etc. So you won't see me shedding any tears over dropping visitation levels.
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Kath, I do sympathize and I do know that feeling...try lite back packing in a few miles and see if your luck changes. You be suprised at the empty camp sites. Most vistors and campers don't venture off the beaten trails less then a few miles anyway. Good luck!
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Speaking for one nuclear family that would like to visit the parks more, I'll tell you our experience. With work and school our times to visit are limited to summer and weekends. For that, in Yosemite and Sequoia, we have to reserve lodging six months in advance. I've tried in recent weeks to reserve space for spring break or Memorial Day --impossible. Last year, when I got a cabin at the Tuolumne Meadows Lodge for Labor Day weekend just a few days in advance, due to a cancellation, the desk clerk treated me like I'd won the lottery, which, in fact, I had. We have camped, but there again, if you're coming from any distance, the 'no-reservations' campgrounds could be full by mid-afternoon, having been grabbed by people who live close enough to get there early. I'm not willing to drive for hours and risk not having a place to camp when I get there. It gotten to the point where I've just eliminated Yosemite or Sequoia from my list of places to go for the weekend. It's not the entrance fee or any other fee. I long for the way it was when I was a kid. We could just drive in the the National Parks and pull up at the lodge and get a room. There may be vacancies in mid-February on a weekday, but that doesn't allow working families with kids in school to go.
  • Visitation Trends   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Visitation Trends
    The Chaco Canyon visitation decline makes me want to visit tomorrow. Wait. I can't afford the gas.
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Kurt, I know this isn't the response people like to hear but it really is out of Kemp's and Bomar's hands. Until the President and Congress choose to adequately fund the NPS instead of pushing private investment there really is not much they can do - other than resign in protest, which I doubt either of them plan on doing.
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    I *knew* that'd get a comment from you, Jim;-) Sadly, I'm beginning to wonder if it's too late to have this discussion regarding the parks. Is the concrete already set? The larger societal issue you allude to has a much longer, more intricate, life than the one now involving the parks, and I'll leave that for others to debate. As for the parks, it seems that in the wake of World War II, as the Baby Boomers arrived, the parks were largely within reach of the masses. Indeed, that's what the Mission 66 program was largely built around, making the parks more accessible to the newly motorized public. It would be interesting to get an economist's input on that contention, someone who could compare today's costs of a park vacation to those of 50 years ago. I fear today that parks are being placed more and more out of reach of the masses, for myriad reasons, economics being just one aspect. It truly will be interesting to see whether Mr. Kempthorne and Ms. Bomar address this in their Centennial Initiative report to the president late this month.
  • The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The "Real" Cost of Visiting a Park
    Geez, Kurt, "literary cyber-portal"? LOL... I think I should clarify at least your use of my quote. When I talk about the continuum, you don't note that my series of essays in some sense is an attack on that continuum. The point of my essays isn't to find a balance between private ownership rights and public ownership rights but to say that there are no ownership rights at all by anyone. There is ownership for sure but no right to it. Understanding and coming to grips with that distinction (assuming my argument holds) is the turn our ethics must go. For the time being, I come down on the side of public control over private control, but that's a strategical consideration based on the practical realities my position leads me. At best, it's temporary. In any event, I'd invite people to slog through the essays. The discussion it raises, that skyblu has been talking about, that Scott Silver has been talking about, and that you raise here is a question that will keep coming up. We should have it in all seriousness. I would argue from a sociological perspective that many of the poor have always been priced out of crown jewel parks. What's happening is that more and more are on the outside looking in or are forced into particular ways of appreciating the parks. If we are to get a grip on it, we can't see this simply from the perspective of the national parks but from the standpoint of the entitlement ethics that stratifies every layer of our society.
  • The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks
    Hey Jeremy,
    I didn't know you were moonlighting (PC Police). What does that pay ;)
  • Some Restraint, Please   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Some Restraint, Please
    As a frequent NPT reader who is interested in open discussion of issues related to national parks and the National Park Service, I find National Parks Traveler to be an outstanding outlet for information and opinion. Thank you for announcing your editorial intention to keep it that way.
  • The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks
    Well maybe the author should attend one of the many "Sensitivity Awareness" classes that are constantly being offered for EO training in the NPS. It's never too late to be educated in the cutting edge terms and descriptions one must use when describing a dynamic and ever changing universe.

    On a more serious note though, entrance fees are a major issue in the declining visitation numbers at national parks. I run a business in a gateway area and know firsthand that visitors are unwilling to pay the increasingly exhorbitant fees and then be treated to the antics of finger wagging and unfriendly rangers that will pull your car over, with siren and lights ablazing, for picking up a pine cone. I kid you not on that one!

    State parks, BLM lands, Forest Service areas and private landowners today offer a much better outdoor experience for people wishing to access the wilds. The park service does not grasp the concepts of customer service, courtesy or price value. They are too busy being wrapped in a self-righteous cocoon of environmental crusading and ladder-climbing careerism. In fact most rangers I have known will tell you, when their guard is down, that they see park visitors as nothing more than a nuisiance that they must simply tolerate and mitigate from "trashing" their parks.

    The mandarins in WASO can bloviate all they want about their "sacred mission" and being stewards serving "our visitors" but the reality on the ground is a far different thing. The visiting public can easily see and feel the negative attitude being beamed towards them and it and no longer wants any part of it. Visitation will continue to go down, regardless of the price of gas, as long as the NPS continues to treat its customers with such little respect and next to no sense of service.
  • The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks
    Randy,
    Thanks for you comment. For clarification, the concept that a nuclear family consists only of a mom, dad, and a couple kids, which can fit easily into a single car, conforms to traditional WASP world view that doesn't apply to a lot of modern families I know. In that regard, yes, it is culturally insensitive.
  • The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: The Fallacy of Family Pricing for National Parks
    The concept of the "nuclear family" is culturally insensitive?

    Just when I think the PC police have gone as far as they can, I hear something like this.
  • Big Cypress: Wilderness or ORVs?   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Big Cypress: Wilderness or ORVs?
    The above comments were posted by Wayne Jenkins, not Bruce Ward. I don't know how the error occurred.
  • Big Cypress: Wilderness or ORVs?   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Big Cypress: Wilderness or ORVs?
    Once again, instead of of all user groups working together to allow everyone to protect and enjoy their favorite recreation, we have a group pushing their agenda with mis-representation of the facts. The Bear Island Unit is part of the original preserve and the designated trails were provided for in the ORV Management Plan. The NPS established secondary trails, off the main trail, that travel a short distance, dead end at a specific point, and must return on the same trail. While the number of miles of trails were arbitrarily imposed by a former superintendent, the ORV community is attempting to work with the NPS to develop suitable trails that allow for ORV use and enjoyment. The big distinction many people to not grasp is the fact that the Big Cypress area was created by congress as a PRESERVE and not a national PARK. This area was created by sportsmen, conservationists and environ-mentalists working together to lobby for creation and protection of this area by congress from development. It was created as a preaserve to allow for hunting and ORV use. Congressional testimony stated the area was to be used and used hard. The alternative would have been to allow for further development around an established jetport used for practice jet landings and take offs. The new environmental arrivals are intent on disregarding the enabling legislation and pushing their personal beliefs. The addition lands should become part of the current Big Cypress National Preserve and managed as congress intended.
  • Visitation Trends   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Visitation Trends
    I don't think it's the user fees for the decline in the National Parks attendence....but a general lack of interest in our natural and cultural heritage...I don't see the Bush administration taking a deep interest in the National Parks.
  • Visitation Trends   6 years 5 weeks ago
    re: Visitation Trends
    I think it's very, very difficult to show a cause from a statistical correlation. It takes a lot of research and experiments on a lot of different variables. And, let's say that user fees are in part a cause of declining park visitation. A lot of people will still wonder, "So what? Weren't you all just complaining that the parks were being loved to death?" If one wants to go after user fees, I think one needs another approach tied not simply to the issue of park visitation. One needs to connect them to all kinds of user fees, what user fees represent in our political and economic system, and then evaluate whether they are worthwhile. I'm not saying this so that people stop researching the connection between visitation and user fees - that's an interesting question that can shed light on what motivates behavior. I am saying it simply because I don't think stats like this point the discussion in the right direction for coming to a resolution on the issue.
  • Woman Dies in Fall From Angel's Landing   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Woman Dies in Fall From Angel's Landing
    I am rather afraid of heights. Would it be possible to run a rope from a climbing harness around the chain and back to the harness with a carabiner? Would that somehow disrupt things for other people?
  • Visitation Trends   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Visitation Trends
    How much of the decline is due to fees and how much is due to social and cultural changes? People work more and recreate less compared to five or ten years ago. Doesn't it stand to reason that they will have less time to visit national parks? Its easy and convenient to pin the blame on fees, but I believe there is a lot more to it than that.
  • Is Wilderness Designation near For Rocky Mountain?   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Is Wilderness Designation near For Rocky Mountain?
    Its not everyday that all of the major cities, towns, and/or counties all support designation... Musgrave and Dullard should get out of the way and let it happen.
  • Visitation Trends   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Visitation Trends
    Visitor traffic to Channel Islands National Park has been up and down since '97. And there's no fee to enter the visitor's center and no NPS fee to visit the islands. Redwoods NP visitation went down after '96 but they have no fee. And in fee-charging parks the record isn't consistent either. Yellowstone went up in '98 and then leveled off to roughly '97 levels. Sequoia NP went down then up, then down again. Yosemite has had a downward trend. Yippee! There may be differences in counting methods. There could be differences that affected individual parks only (weather factors, the availability of accomodations, etc.) But overall, people go to the parks to seek a certain amount of solitude to commune with nature. Many of the parks have hit the limit that causes people to think "I'm not going there next year, it's too crowded".
  • Canned Audio Tours Replacing Rangers   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Canned Audio Tours Replacing Rangers
    I agree Jim! There's nothing more rewarding then being ushered by a well versed National Park Ranger on various subjects...either it be natural, historical or anthropological...it's feels more personal and less intrusive with all that (plug in the ears) yakked talk.
  • Canned Audio Tours Replacing Rangers   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Canned Audio Tours Replacing Rangers
    In Kansas City, we just had a private exhibition of the Dead Sea Scrolls that made use of "audio wands" to provide commentary on the various parts of the exhibit. These wands were really like big cell phones, so you're wandering around in a room of 50 or so other people who all have this thing up to their ear. It looks like something out of a Kurt Vonnegut story. Anyway, the audio commentary did feature some good information from experts in the field (professors, etc.), but it was not interactive at all, and it was difficult to pay attention to what was being said when you're bumping into all these other people who are walking around aimlessly. My kids soon stopped listening to theirs, and I eventually gave up as well. It cost $20 a ticket, and it was one of the most disappointing museum experiences I've ever had. Later that week we went to see Harry Truman's home in Independence, MO, and were given a tour in a small group (8 people) by a National Park Ranger, and it was just great. These audio wands certainly are more cost effective, but they can't replace a live guide.
  • Help Ken Burns Chronicle the Parks   6 years 6 weeks ago
    re: Help Ken Burns Chronicle the Parks
    My mother grew up at Hazel creek North Carolina before that area was established as the Smoky Mountains. Her father, Orson Burlingame was an engineer and managed the Ritter Lumber Company which was the major employer for that area until 1942 when all residence were required to leave. My grandfather and numerous relatives are buried at Bone Valley, the cemetary for that area. I first visited Bone Valley and Hazel Creek in about 1964 when my family took the tomb stone to my Grandfather's grave, with the help of the park service. Now the park service helps displaced families return to their relatives' graves and home sites every Sunday during the summer. The Hazel Creek Reunion is always the 4th Sunday of June. The park service meets us and about 100 other individuals at Fontana lake and ferries us to the mouth of Hazel Creek. We are met by various forms of transportation which will carry us to Bone Valley (sometimes we will walk the 6 miles). Along the way, the elderly people who spent their childhoods there, tell us stories of going to school, playing ball, working at the lumber mill. Few structures remain but if you know what to look for you can see where the homes were or the lumber yard. As for my grandparents' home, a small portion of a stone wall remains and the yellow iris still bloom. When we arrive at Bone Valley we have a church service, potluck dinner and decorate the graves. individually we will visit our families' homesites and talk with people who lived there or knew our relatives. My uncle is 86 and he made the reunion last year but for him many of his generation, the trip is getting too difficult. I have some very brief home movie footage of the family boat trip in 1964 and numerous photographs of my mother and her family at Hazel Creek in the 20's and 30's. If any of this is of interest, please contact me. thank you