Recent comments

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago


    Kurt, the language;recreational activities of similar nature, which shall be developed for such uses as needed, means that ramps will be cut through the dunes to limit where ORV access to the beach. They knew back then that we had to keep penetrations through the dunes to a minimum and at specific places, and built in certain ways. The villagers knew that also. When the Feds came down to the Islands in the '30's with the CCC and others to construct the dunes that have protected the Islands to this day, the Federal Government decided that the Island would migrate no more. They encouraged the locals to build homes and preserve the dunes to protect the villages. Now some of the wackos want to tear down the dunes and let the islands to overwash during storms (because that would be natural) well it is too late to let it go back to the way it was. The Fed encouraged the locals to build a business to attract tourists and take care of them. Guess what? They did just that. Now the wackos want to reverse history, and revise what the plans are for this tourist area. That is what we are fighting.

    To fish for large Red Drum takes about 100lbs of tackle; that includes a large cooler of bait, water, & food (50lb) 2 or 3 rods with reels (12lbs) sand spikes (10lbs) waders (10lbs) extra clothes (15lbs) porta pottie (20lbs) Would you like to carry that gear out to the point for me? It is about 2 miles from the parking lot, one way. This is big fish fishing with the same prep as one would do to go off-shore on a charter boat, we just do it on land. It in no way resembles going to the pond in the back field with a can of worms to catch a stringer of bluegills. Come down sometime, some of us would be glad to show you how it is done. You could show us how to hump our gear over 2 miles of soft sand, and after fishing for 20hrs or so humping it all
    back.
    longcaster

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    A very interesting document in the creation of the seashore. The following is an excert of US Senate testimony, with the original document scanned into the written testimony. Refer to the page numbers to read the history and see the portions provided below.

    Link:

    http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/WarrenJudgeTestimony.pdf

    Page 13 of the PDF link:

    Subsequent comments by the NFS Director in 1952 when the land was acquired and the Park officially created bears out this intent. [b]In an open letter to the People of the Outer Banks addressing the new boundary lines for the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreation Area dated October 27, 1952, NPS Director Wirth [b]made it clear that the basic legislation authorizing the formation of the Seashore reserved fishing rights to the people and that access to the beach was fundamental to protecting those rights.

    [b]Conrad L. Wirth, A Letter to the People of the Outer Banks, The Coastland Times (Oct. 31, 1952)[b], Alt. 1. Indeed, Director Wirth assured the residents that [b]"there will always be access to the beach for all people, whether they are local residents or visitors from the outside." Id. This would include vehicular access. In his letter, he told the local residents that it will be necessary to establish "certain regulations within the Seashore such as designated places for vehicles to get to the beach in order to reduce sand dune erosion to a minimum;[b] to manage ocean fishing where large numbers of bathers are using the beach and to confine bathing to certain areas." Id. (emphasis added). Director Wirth also acknowledged that the communities that lived in the area for generations would become responsible for caring for the tourists that would arrive at the newly-established Seashore, id., and recognized that these communities have a right to enjoy the prosperity that would flow from the creation of the Seashore. Id. Subsequently, former Director Wirth reaffirmed this position in
    a letter to then-Interior Secretary Lujan. In commenting on lack of action in stabilizing the Oregon Inlet, former Director Wirth noted that, when the Seashore was created, he had made a promise of cooperation with the State of North Carolina and local government to work together as partners to "bring enjoyment to millions of visitors." Letter from Conrad L. Wirth, Former NPS Director, and Secretary of Interior Manuel Lujan (letter taken from the Coastland Times Sunday, May 18, 1993), Att. 1. He further stated that "this promise was made in response to local concerns as to how the park would affect local people, their businesses and their rights to
    continue fishing and in recognition that man is an integral part of nature and a very important consideration of designing solutions in dealing with nature."

    Original scanned document:

    Page 26 bottom of page: (typo's are from the software used to copy and paste. The document is ol;d and was scanned - typos are from the less than quality font)

    From the document:

    Friday, October 31, 7 '2 THE COASTLAND TIMES, MAW N. C..
    ; ;
    A LETTER TO THE PEOPLE OF THE OUTER BANKS

    Concerning access to the beach (question 4),—when I met with you I explained that '••£ It when the Lauds for the Recrtjarioual Ar-.-ja arc acquired and become public property ' '•'/'{ |' thure will always be .access to the beach .for all people, whether they are local --.. j.~ residents or visitors from the outside. [b]However, it will bo necessary to establish • i';, certain regulations, such -i: c-o nus'.gnatti platros fc-r vehicles to get to the beach " :''.[b] in order to reduce sand dunu crosier, to a minJnum; to managu ocean fishing where '».: large numbers of bathers are using th« h<--ach; and to confine bathing to certain &•' areas.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    I'm not denying that ORVs long have played a role in CAHA and I do believe they will continue to, but if that's the only way you get your kids outside....

    The problem is that the nature of the gear required for surf fishing, pretty much precludes walking. 12' rods, bait that must be kept on nice, long hours on a hot beach. Then what happens when you catch fish you plan on eating (50lb+ fish)?

    No vehicles on the beach = no fishing

    And BTW, the closures also included pedestrian traffic as well.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Kurt Repanshek wrote:
    That said, to the best of my knowledge the "RA" suffix really doesn't set Cape Hatteras aside to be managed with recreation foremost in mind....

    The Recreation Area thing is important because of the manner in which Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreation Area was founded. Hatteras has always been a must go to fishing destination. The "locals" did not want to lose access, and the founding of CHNSRA was contingent upon guaranteed access in the future. IMO, those who gave up their land should get it back if the agreement is not honored (and I think they could make a case in court).

    This is the important part I was referring to.

    The Law! wrote:
    Except for certain portions of the area, deemed to be especially adaptable for recreational uses, particularly swimming, boating, sailing, fishing, and other recreational activities of similar nature, which shall be developed for such uses as needed,

    CHNSRA is first and foremost a place for people to enjoy recreational activities. Conservation is explicit but only in a secondary manner to recreation.

    The problem is "The Point" is the most famous surf fishing spot on the east coast. Absolutely world famous in fact. Surf fisherman have absolutely no problem with the conservation thing, but you don't go and close an area that is the Mecca of surf fishing, a closing that violates the law, done in a deceitful and underhanded manner, and then wonder why there's so much venom.

    Personally I feel that the reason that this has turned out so ugly is that the Eco side of this battle suffered from a severe case of elitism. They view surf fisherman as stupid drunken rednecks and went to great lengths to fabricate a scenario in order to force their views on everybody. The Eco movement as a whole suffers from this, and people are starting to catch on.

  • Collapse of "Wall Arch" Proves Gravity Does Work at Arches National Park   5 years 49 weeks ago

    I was there just a few weeks ago. I feel immensely privileged to have been one of the last people to view Wall Arch. It all seems so majestic and immovable when you are there, strange to think that just a few weeks later (a heartbeat in geological time) it's gone.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Eric,

    Sorry for your disappointment. Frankly, I'm not directing the thread, the community is. I don't feel it's my role to say one side is right or the other wrong, and I think I've made that pretty evident in my comments.

    That said, I've been visiting national parks, including national seashores -- including CAHA -- and military parks and historic sites, and NRAs and on and on for roughly 40 years now and I've never had to resort to an ORV to enjoy my visit or transport my gear.

    I have to admit there's a measure of irony in your comment about fires and neon. The same might be said about muscle power and gas engines I suppose.

    I'm not denying that ORVs long have played a role in CAHA and I do believe they will continue to, but if that's the only way you get your kids outside....

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    You anti ORV people make me sick, Please tell me, just one at a time please, just how do you plan to raise your children with proper family values without access to our American Treasures, You people are promoting access to dead end roads to our childrens futures!

    I can't Find it within myself to tell my child, it's ok, just watch TV instead of going outside.

    Americas future learns more by campfire than neon,

    Kurt, I am very disapointed with your direction of this thread, you say you're for the protection of our National Parks, but , you neglect to mention who it really affects.

    How will our children ever benifit from areas meant for family use when access is denied?

    I for one EXPECT an answer ,one way or the other, for my child and for myself!

  • Grand Canyon National Park "Short Haul" Operations   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Gail and others,

    I'm afraid the Park Service considers the names of those involved privileged information and will not release them without a Freedom of Information Act request.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Longcaster,

    The citation is much appreciated.

    That said, to the best of my knowledge the "RA" suffix really doesn't set Cape Hatteras aside to be managed with recreation foremost in mind. In theory, all 391 units of the National Park System are to be managed the same, regardless of whether they're a "national park," "national military park," "national historic site," etc, etc., etc., and even "national seashore recreational area." That management plan, of course, being to conserve the resources unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.

    Of course, specific enacting legislation can give the NPS slightly different marching orders, such as with national preserves that allow hunting or snowmobiling. And while the enacting legislation for Cape Hatteras certainly mentions recreation, it doesn't specify ORV use.

    Of course, much of the current battle might have been avoided had CAHA long ago adopted an ORV management plan. That failure seems to be behind this poker game.

    I think, judging from the many comments on this thread, that the key now is to somehow move beyond nomenclature and picture angles and reach a solution amenable to both sides. Flash-point rhetoric accomplishes little.

    Now, as JohnAB pointed out earlier:

    The consent decree process included public consultation and comment, and was agreed to by the organizations bringing the case and the National Park Service. And agreed to by the two North Carolina counties directly affected by the case, and representatives of a coalition of local ORV and fishing groups – the counties and the groups having participated in the case as interveners.

    I think it's a sad fact of today that even when consensus supposedly is achieved groups don't hesitate to either 1) resort to a lawsuit to get their way, 2) try to legislate their way, or 3) all of the above. Rather than indulge in these excesses, I'd rather see the public get involved with the current process seashore officials are overseeing to draft an acceptable ORV management plan.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    You need to read this legislation in order, in which my Environmentalist friends fail to do every time. First and foremost, under US Code 16, Chapter 1, section 1A-1 note the words of the amendment “1978--Pub. L. 95-250 provided that the promotion and regulation of the various areas of the National Park System, as defined in section 1c of this title, be consistent with and founded in the purpose established by section 1 of this title, to the common benefit of all the people of the United States, and that the authorization of activities be construed and the protection, management, and administration of these areas be conducted in light of the high public value and integrity of the National Park System and not be exercised in derogation of the values and purposes for which these various areas have been established, except as may have been or shall be directly and specifically provided by Congress.”

    That’s right, if you are going to derogate (change) the purpose of the Seashore (ie establish it as a Wildlife refuge), which was set up as a Recreational Area for the enjoyment of the people per US Code 16, Chapter 1, Section 459 and 459a-2, you better have specific Approval by congress.

    You also need to review the Congressional record of congress during debates prior to passing this enambling legislation in 1937, and also the letter issued to the people of Hatteras Island by the Superintendant of CHNSRA in 1952. You also need to know that residents donated the land to the State of North Carolina, which in turn, turned over the deeds for the land to the United States Government.

    Mr Repanshek, there is alot of things you need to know. Thanks for posting this article, its worthy of discussion in rational manner.

    Respectfully Submitted

    Scott Lambright

    -----------
    TITLE 16--CONSERVATION

    CHAPTER 1--NATIONAL PARKS, MILITARY PARKS, MONUMENTS, AND SEASHORES

    SUBCHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

    Sec. 1a-1. National Park System: administration; declaration of findings and purpose
    Congress declares that the national park system, which began with establishment of Yellowstone National Park in 1872, has since grown to
    include superlative natural, historic, and recreation areas in every major region of the United States, its territories and island possessions; that these areas, though distinct in character, are united through their inter-related purposes and resources into one national park system as cumulative expressions of a single national heritage; that, individually and collectively, these areas derive increased national dignity and recognition of their superb environmental quality through their inclusion jointly with each other in one national park system preserved and managed for the benefit and inspiration of all the people of the United States; and that it is the purpose of this Act to include all such areas in the System and to clarify the authorities
    applicable to the system. Congress further reaffirms, declares, and directs that the promotion and regulation of the various areas of the National Park System, as defined in section 1c of this title, shall be consistent with and founded in the purpose established by section 1 of this title, to the common benefit of all the people of the United States. The authorization of activities shall be construed and the protection, management, and administration of these areas shall be conducted in light of the high public value and integrity of the National Park System and shall not be exercised in derogation of the
    values and purposes for which these various areas have been established, except as may have been or shall be directly and specifically provided by Congress. (Pub. L. 91-383, Sec. 1, Aug. 18, 1970, 84 Stat. 825; Pub. L. 95-250, title I, Sec. 101(b), Mar. 27, 1978, 92 Stat. 166.)
    References in Text
    This Act, referred to in text, means Pub. L. 91-383, Aug. 18, 1970, 84 Stat. 825, as amended, known as the ``National Park System General
    Authorities Act''. As originally enacted, Pub. L. 91-383 contained sections 1 to 4, the first 3 of which enacted sections 1a-1 and 1a-2 and amended sections 1b and 1c of this title. Pub. L. 94-458 amended Pub. L. 91-383 by adding sections 5 to 12, which enacted sections 1a-3 to 1a-7, amended sections 17j, 460n-5, 463, 470a, and 559, and repealed sections 10, 10a, 17b-1, and 415 of this title. Pub. L. 103-322 amended Pub. L. 91-383 by adding section 13, which enacted section 1a-7a of this title. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see Short Title of 1970 Amendment note set out under section 1 of this title and Tables.
    Amendments
    1978--Pub. L. 95-250 provided that the promotion and regulation of the various areas of the National Park System, as defined in section 1c of this title, be consistent with and founded in the purpose established by section 1 of this title, to the common benefit of all the people of the United States, and that the authorization of activities be construed and the protection, management, and administration of these areas be conducted in light of the high public value and integrity of the National Park System and not be exercised in derogation of the values and purposes for which these various areas have been established, except as may have been or shall be directly and specifically provided by Congress.
    --------------------------------------------
    TITLE 16--CONSERVATION
    CHAPTER 1--NATIONAL PARKS, MILITARY PARKS, MONUMENTS, AND SEASHORES
    SUBCHAPTER LXIII--NATIONAL SEASHORE RECREATIONAL AREAS

    Sec. 459. Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area; conditional establishment; acquisition of lands

    When title to all the lands, except those within the limits of established villages, within boundaries to be designated by the Secretary of the Interior within the area of approximately one hundred square miles on the islands of Chicamacomico, Ocracoke, Bodie, Roanoke, and Collington, and the waters and the lands beneath the waters adjacent thereto shall have been vested in the United States, said area shall be, and is, established, dedicated, and set apart as a national seashore recreational area for the benefit and enjoyment of the people and shall be known as the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area: Provided, That the United States shall not purchase by appropriation of public moneys any lands within the aforesaid area, but such lands shall be secured by the United States only by public or private donation.
    (Aug. 17, 1937, ch. 687, Sec. 1, 50 Stat. 669; June 29, 1940, ch. 459, Sec. 1, 54 Stat. 702.)
    Change of Name
    Words ``national seashore recreational area'' substituted in text for ``national seashore'' pursuant to act June 29, 1940.
    ------------------------------------------------
    TITLE 16--CONSERVATION
    CHAPTER 1--NATIONAL PARKS, MILITARY PARKS, MONUMENTS, AND SEASHORES
    SUBCHAPTER LXIII--NATIONAL SEASHORE RECREATIONAL AREAS

    Sec. 459a-8. Limitation on expenditure

    The total amount which may be expended for the land acquisition program at Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area, pursuant to the authorizations contained in sections 459a-6 to 459a-8 of this title, is expressly limited to $250,000. (Aug. 6, 1956, ch. 988, Sec. 3, 70 Stat. 1066.)
    ______________________________

    SUBCHAPTER LXIII--NATIONAL SEASHORE RECREATIONAL AREAS

    Sec. 459a-1. Administration, protection, and development; commercial fishing by residents; hunting

    The administration, protection, and development of the aforesaid national seashore recreational area shall be exercised under the
    direction of the Secretary of the Interior by the National Park Service, subject to the provisions of sections 1, 2, 3, and 4 of this title, as amended: Provided, That except as hereinafter provided nothing herein shall be construed to divest the jurisdiction of other agencies of the Government exercised on August 17, 1937, over Federal-owned lands within the area of the said Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area: Provided further, That the provisions of the Federal Power Act [16 U.S.C. 791a et seq.], shall not apply to this national seashore recreational area: And provided further, That the legal residents of villages referred to in section 459 of this title shall have the right to earn a livelihood by fishing within the boundaries to be designated by the Secretary of the Interior, subject to such rules and regulations as the said Secretary may deem necessary in order to protect the area for recreational use as provided for in sections 459 to 459a-3 of this title: And provided further, That hunting shall be permitted, under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior in conformity with the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of July 3, 1918 (40 Stat. 755) [16 U.S.C. 703 et seq.], as follows: (a) Upon the waters of the sounds included within the national seashore recreational area, (b) in the area north of the Currituck County line, (c) on Ocracoke Island, and (d) within not more than two thousand acres of land in the remaining portion of said national seashore recreational area, as shall be designated by the Secretary of the Interior; except on lands and waters included in any existing or future wildlife or migratory bird refuge and adjacent closed waters. (Aug. 17, 1937, ch. 687, Sec. 3, 50 Stat. 670; June 29, 1940, ch. 459, Secs. 1, 2, 54 Stat. 702.)
    References in Text
    The Federal Power Act, referred to in text, was in the original the
    ``Act of June 10, 1920, known as the Federal Water Power Act,'' and was
    redesignated as the Federal Power Act by section 791a of this title. The Federal Power Act is act June 10, 1920, ch. 285, 41 Stat. 1063, as
    amended, and is classified generally to chapter 12 (Sec. 791a et seq.) of this title. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see section 791a of this title and Tables. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of July 3, 1918, referred to in text, is act July 3, 1918, ch. 128, 40 Stat. 755, as amended, which is
    classified generally to subchapter II (Sec. 703 et seq.) of chapter 7 of this title. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see
    section 710 of this title and Tables.
    Change of Name
    Words ``national seashore recreational area'' substituted in text for ``national seashore'' pursuant to act June 29, 1940.
    Transfer of Functions
    For transfer of functions of other officers, employees, and agencies of Department of the Interior, with certain exceptions, to Secretary of the Interior, with power to delegate, see Reorg. Plan No. 3 of 1950, Secs. 1, 2, eff. May 24, 1950, 15 F.R. 3174, 64 Stat. 1262, set out in the Appendix to Title 5, Government Organization and Employees.
    --------------------------------------------------

    CHAPTER 1--NATIONAL PARKS, MILITARY PARKS, MONUMENTS, AND SEASHORES
    SUBCHAPTER LXIII--NATIONAL SEASHORE RECREATIONAL AREAS

    Sec. 459a-2. Preservation of natural features; acquisition of additional property; reversion of property on failure of conditions

    Except for certain portions of the area, deemed to be especially adaptable for recreational uses, particularly swimming, boating, sailing, fishing, and other recreational activities of similar nature, which shall be developed for such uses as needed, the said area shall be permanently reserved as a primitive wilderness and no development of the project or plan for the convenience of visitors shall be undertaken which would be incompatible with the preservation of the unique flora and fauna or the physiographic conditions now prevailing in this area: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, accept for administration, protection, and development by the National Park Service a minimum of ten thousand acres within the area described in section 459 of this title, including the existing Cape Hatteras State Park, and, in addition, any other portions of the area described in section 459 of this title if the State of North Carolina shall agree that if all the lands described in section 459 of this title shall not have been conveyed to the United States within fifteen years from August 17, 1937, the establishment of the aforesaid national seashore recreational area may, in the discretion of the said Secretary, be abandoned, and that, in the event of such abandonment, the said State will accept a reconveyance of title to all lands conveyed by it to the United States for said national seashore recreational area. The lands donated to the United States for the purposes of sections 459 to 459a-3
    of this title by parties other than said State shall revert in the event of the aforesaid abandonment to the donors, or their heirs, or other persons entitled thereto by law. In the event of said abandonment, the Secretary of the Interior shall execute any suitable quitclaim deeds, or other writings entitled
    to record in the proper counties of North Carolina stating the fact of abandonment, whereupon title shall revert to those entitled thereto by law and no further conveyance or proof of reversion of title shall be required. (Aug. 17, 1937, ch. 687, Sec. 4, 50 Stat. 670; June 29, 1940, ch. 459, Sec. 1, 54 Stat. 702; Mar. 6, 1946, ch. 50, 60 Stat. 32.)
    Amendments
    1946--Act Mar. 6, 1946, substituted ``fifteen years'' for ``ten years'' before ``from August 17, 1937''.
    Change of Name
    Words ``national seashore recreational area'' substituted in text for ``national seashore'' pursuant to act June 29, 1940.
    Transfer of Functions
    For transfer of functions of other officers, employees, and agencies of Department of the Interior, with certain exceptions, to Secretary of the Interior, with power to delegate, see Reorg. Plan No. 3 of 1950, Secs. 1, 2, eff. May 24, 1950, 15 F.R. 3174, 64 Stat. 1262, set out in the Appendix to Title 5, Government Organization and Employees.

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Sec. 459a-3. Migratory bird refuges not to be affected

    Notwithstanding any other provisions of sections 459 to 459a-3 of this title, lands and waters on or after August 17, 1937, included in any migratory bird refuge under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of Agriculture, within the boundaries of the national seashore recreational area as designated by the Secretary of the Interior under section 459 of this title, shall continue as such refuge under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of Agriculture for the protection of migratory birds, but such lands and waters shall be a part of the aforesaid national seashore recreational area and shall be administered by the National Park Service for recreational uses not inconsistent with the purposes of such refuge under such rules and regulations as the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture may jointly approve. The proviso to section 459 of this title shall not limit the power of the Secretary of Agriculture to acquire lands for any migratory bird refuge by purchase with any funds made available therefor by applicable law.
    (Aug. 17, 1937, ch. 687, Sec. 5, 50 Stat. 670; June 29, 1940, ch. 459, Sec. 1, 54 Stat. 702.)
    Change of Name
    Words ``national seashore recreational area'' substituted in text for ``national seashore'' pursuant to act June 29, 1940.
    Transfer of Functions
    For transfer of functions of other officers, employees, and agencies of Department of the Interior, with certain exceptions, to Secretary of the Interior, with power to delegate, see Reorg. Plan No. 3 of 1950, Secs. 1, 2, eff. May 24, 1950, 15 F.R. 3174, 64 Stat. 1262, set out in the Appendix to Title 5, Government Organization and Employees.

  • Grand Canyon National Park "Short Haul" Operations   5 years 49 weeks ago

    My daughter is with the Peterson Family and others, rafting down the Colorado River. Where can I find the names of the ones recued. I,m from N.J. and hearing this on the news.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Here is more from Title 16 U S Code section 459 with the name changed to include Recreational Area. I think the Recreational Area name addition was so hunting could be allowed in the sound for ducks & geese.

    TITLE 16 > CHAPTER 1 > SUBCHAPTER LXIII > § 459a–5aPrev | Next § 459a–5a. Addition of lands; Hatteras
    How Current is This? The tracts of excess Federal lands and improvements thereon in the village of Hatteras, Dare County, North Carolina, bearing General Services Administration control numbers T–NC–442 and C–NC–444, comprising forty-three one-hundredths and one and five-tenths acres of land, respectively, the exact descriptions for which shall be determined by the Administrator of General Services, are transferred, without exchange of funds, to the administrative jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior to be administered as a part of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area, authorized by sections 459 to 459a–3 of this title, and shall be subject to all the laws and regulations applicable thereto. Search this title:


    TITLE 16 > CHAPTER 1 > SUBCHAPTER LXIII > § 459a–6Prev | Next § 459a–6. Acquisition of non-Federal land within boundaries of recreational area
    How Current is This? Section 452a of this title is amended to extend the authority of the Secretary of the Interior, contained therein, to the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area. Search this title:


    Kurt, does this help with understanding why we include the RA in the name of this National Seashore Recreational Area.

    longcaster

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    The best source of the words about the founding of Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area are found in Title 16 Of the U S Code;

    U.S. Code collectionmain page faq index search

    TITLE 16 > CHAPTER 1 > SUBCHAPTER LXIII > § 459a–2Prev | Next § 459a–2. Preservation of natural features; acquisition of additional property; reversion of property on failure of conditions
    How Current is This? Except for certain portions of the area, deemed to be especially adaptable for recreational uses, particularly swimming, boating, sailing, fishing, and other recreational activities of similar nature, which shall be developed for such uses as needed, the said area shall be permanently reserved as a primitive wilderness and no development of the project or plan for the convenience of visitors shall be undertaken which would be incompatible with the preservation of the unique flora and fauna or the physiographic conditions now prevailing in this area: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, accept for administration, protection, and development by the National Park Service a minimum of ten thousand acres within the area described in section 459 of this title, including the existing Cape Hatteras State Park, and, in addition, any other portions of the area described in section 459 of this title if the State of North Carolina shall agree that if all the lands described in section 459 of this title shall not have been conveyed to the United States within fifteen years from August 17, 1937, the establishment of the aforesaid national seashore recreational area may, in the discretion of the said Secretary, be abandoned, and that, in the event of such abandonment, the said State will accept a reconveyance of title to all lands conveyed by it to the United States for said national seashore recreational area. The lands donated to the United States for the purposes of sections 459 to 459a–3 of this title by parties other than said State shall revert in the event of the aforesaid abandonment to the donors, or their heirs, or other persons entitled thereto by law.
    In the event of said abandonment, the Secretary of the Interior shall execute any suitable quitclaim deeds, or other writings entitled to record in the proper counties of North Carolina stating the fact of abandonment, whereupon title shall revert to those entitled thereto by law and no further conveyance or proof of reversion of title shall be required.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Interestingly, the NPS Cape Hatteras FAQ says that actual off-road vehicles are forbidden:

    Vehicles: All vehicles used in the park, including portions of the beach open for driving, must have a current vehicle registration, license tag, and the operators must have a current driver's license. No ATV’s are permitted in Cape Hatteras National Seashore. Operation of a vehicle off paved roads is permitted only on marked routes or on designated portions of the beach. (emph. added)

    The Cape Hatteras Park Planning page has links to an authoritative list of documents, most of which are preoccupied with the question of vehicles on the beaches. See the Cape Hatteras home page for the root-index into all aspects of the Seashore.

    A "National Seashore" is a separate designation, like but distinct from Park, Refuge, Monument ... or Recreation Area. The Park Service pages appear to go out of their way to avoid providing a succinct definition of National Seashore. However, everywhere you look on the Cape Hatteras webpages you will see discussion of "recreation" and "vehicles".

    The NPS plainly had no intention of trying to shut down the use of vehicles on the beaches of Cape Hatteras, and is prepared - explicitly - to spend "years" finding accommodations that will facilitate their continuing presence on the sand, while providing for the protection of fauna & flora that really need it.

    Nowhere in the NPS Cape Hatteras webpages did I get the sense that sensitive species will be used as a pry-bar to get vehicles off the beaches. Exactly the opposite: The Park clearly aims to provide for continuing vehicle-based recreation, working around valid sensitive sites where necessary.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Kurt, you are right. Cape Hatteras is a National Seashore, not a National Recreation Area, unless the National Park Service has a typo on its website. There is no mandate that ORVs be allowed.

    Beamis, please don't perpetuate the myth that the National Park System has a lot of roads. The System has about 8,500 miles of road spread over 84 million acres. That totals about .0001 miles of road per square mile. Other than in federal wilderness areas (40% of which are in National Park System units), that's the lowest road density of any land system in the United States. I'm not a fan of ORVs. But it doesn't help to exaggerate the impacts of roads. Most of the National Park System is roadless designated or de facto wilderness. Rangertoo is correct.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    The argument that ORV access must be allowed because of the economic impact of ORV spending on the local economy is the argument I find most objectionable. And arrogant.

    That ORV people are more important than other people because of the dollars they spread around outside the National Seashore? That because of their money, ORV people have a special and favored place – special rights – in the Seashore environment? That ORV people would presume to show arithmetic that justifies them and their money as more important than the very wildlife that the National Seashore was created to protect?

    Someone mentioned the need to bring management of CHNS into the 21st century. Someone else mentioned the danger of the entire coast becoming Virginia Beach. This is exactly why CHNS was created: to preserve a natural resource, in its natural state, for all to enjoy equally. The challenges of the 21st century are the reason the Seashore must be protected.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Andrew,

    You and others refer to Cape Hatteras as a "National Recreation Area." If you could point to where that is specified I'd appreciate it, as I've been unable to find it. Not that I'm doubting you, it'd just be good to have that reference.

    As for the founding legislation, here's the pertinent section as quoted by the Park Service:

    Except for certain portions of the area, deemed to be especially adaptable for recreational uses, particularly swimming, boating, sailing, fishing, and other recreational activities of similar nature, which shall be developed for such uses as needed, the said area shall be permanently reserved as a primitive wilderness and no development of the project or plan for the convenience of visitors shall be undertaken which would be incompatible with the preservation of the unique flora and fauna or the physiographic conditions now prevailing in this area . . .

    I'm not an attorney, but this section doesn't seem to specify which areas of Cape Hatteras are "especially adaptable for recreational uses," and even if if did, changing circumstances can lead to changes in management. Some might look at that wording and note that it says nothing specific to ORV access.

    As for birds and other wildlife, as I understand it if species -- resident or migratory -- are listed under the Endangered Species Act, the Park Service has no choice but to manage other uses so as not to impact those species.

    I'm not saying there should be a blanket prohibition against ORVs, but rather simply pointing out some of the "ground rules," if you will, that have to be considered in finding a workable solution.

  • Black Bear Attacks Child at Great Smoky Mountains National Park   5 years 49 weeks ago

    And where do you live? Do you think that at one time your space did not belong to the animals?
    OK for you but no one else?
    While I am not a wildlife specialist, I think many people who visit the Smokys and have been fortunate enough to see bears as I have a few time, know the difference betwee agressive and passive!
    Don't be so quick to judge.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    "These places are our escape from machines."

    How do you explain the thousands of miles of roads, built in some of the most inaccessible areas of the U.S., by the NPS over the last century? The agency is well known as one of the great road builders of all time.

    Rangetoo you're living in a fantasy world if you think machines aren't part and parcel of the legacy of the National Park Service. Without machines there would be no national parks my friend.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Cape Hatteras National Recreation Area was founded with the explicit statement that access would remain open for recreational activities. Fishing is stated specifically as a recreational activity. It is also stated that areas particularly suitable for such activities will be open.

    There is not a more a suitable area for fishing than "the point".

    Closing access is a clear violation of the founding legislation.

    There is no argument about that. Go read the founding legislation if you don't believe me.

    Cape Hatteras National Recreation Area exists for use by people, not for the birds.

  • Delaware Can Relax; The New National Parks Quarter Dollar Coin Series Will Celebrate “National Sites” Too   5 years 49 weeks ago

    This is great -- my kids love the 50 states quarter series. However, if they use National Parks and Monuments on the quarter, they should be required to use (or at least include) the original Native American name (ex: Devils Tower = Bear Lodge). Or Nebraska's monumental claim to fame... Chimney Rock...

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    Wait, that was sarcasm. Motor vehicles have no place on any beach and no place in the natural lands of national parks. These places are our escape from machines. What does this have to do with Marxism? Marxism is a system of socialism of which the dominant feature is public ownership of the means of production. Are national parks producing some commodity?

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    How To Put Pictures In Comments

    To display a picture in these comments, the image must have its own link on the web, not be embedded in a page (theoretically, you might, but it's another trick..). In the case of SamsDad's pictures, the photo-host shows the final full-size image by itself: in other cases the final picture may be embedded in a page with other stuff. You could use this photo-host's link-URL for the picture (in this case), but it's better not to for 3 reasons.

    1. The picture is too big. It will overwhelm the page, 'break' it, and if we add too many, make it slow to download.
    2. Some hosts might object to this 'hot-linking', where we snag the picture off their server and show it on our site, without them being in on any of the action. Others don't care.
    3. Very often, we will want to resize the image, or make a thumbnail of it (which then links to the big picture, which shows by itself & doesn't overload our article-page). We then have a new picture which we have to put somewhere so it has it's own URL. Normally, this will be on our own website ... or back up on the photo-host.

    I have a regular website of my own, and I also have a modest hosting-allowance with my ISP: many of you will have similar privileges with your ISP. It's extremely handy and worth learning how to use.

    So I snagged SamsDad's picture off his photo-host, reduced it in size, and uploaded it (FTP - 'FileZilla') to my dinky little ISP website.

    If you're not ready to do your own website & FTP right now, then stick with a nice photo-host who displays images "raw", like SamsDad's, but first reduce a copy of the picture to an appropriate size for the room in the comments (remember some folks have small screens...), and also reduce the compression-ratio or 'quality' of the pic, to make the file-size smaller. Then, upload the new, smaller copy of the pic back up onto your photo-host. Now you can hot-link to the comment-pic. (A host that shows pics 'raw' like this, probably knows you want to do hot-linking like that...)

    OK - the pic is parked on the web with its own URL. Now you can do the special little comment-trick to make it show up. Here it is:

    That's a picture of the code-trick, because the code won't show up in the comment. Replace the bogus link with the link for your pic. Make sure the square brackets & slash & img parts remain as shown, and your pic comes up in the comment.

    Kurt has links right above the Preview & Post buttons for the comment-box to a page here on the Traveler that explains all the magic code-tricks you can do in post-comments, including the picture-code.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    I agree about the photo being Cape point ( I took it), but do you really believe that those picture both by the SELC and the Islandfreepress are typical? I am only guessing that you have had minimal contact with those areas. I have been to or by both of those locations and all major holidays (except 2008) for the past 8 years minimum. I have yet to see it that crowded more than maybe twice a year. Now what I want you Anti Beach Access Enviros to do is simply count of the number of vehicles in the SELC photo and the multiply that number by $500.00 (Conservative) per vehicle or you could use my average per trip at 1,000.00 per trip and now pull that from the local economy along with multiplying this by two because Cape Point has roughly the same traffic. OOPS I have seen how enviros do math and I guess as a beach loving fanatic I will have to redo your work anyway. After you have completed this divide that by 2 and now you have the cost per bird due to the consent decree. I am guessing you Enviros pay taxes? If so you will fund the next bridge, and rebuild the island after the next hurricane as the Tourist dollars for people who want to go to the beach will be dried up soon if we close the beaches.

  • What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?   5 years 49 weeks ago

    The photo above is Cape Point, not Oregon Inlet, as shown in the SELC photo. They are not the same thing. Also, the above photo of Cape Point can be compared to the Island Free Press photos of Cape point, as shown in a different post above. In my experience, the Island Free Press photos are much more representative of what happens at Cape Point. This is a shortened link, for convenience: http://tinyurl.com/5dnlxo