Recent comments

This permit business is a disaster. We already saw another death last year where a hiker went up and slipped coming down with rain and mist during her entire ascent and descent. This is what happens when you tell someone that if you make the correct decision to not go up that day, you will not be able to come back the next 2 days, if at all. The system was not broke before the permits were instituted and it certainly has not been made safer. None of the previous accidents had anything to do with high traffic. They had to do with poor decision making as to whether it was safe to ascend or whether the person had the proper footwear and physical/mental strength to ascend.

I am reading the Paul Berkowitz book, "The Case of the Indian Trader" reviewed by Traveler contributing editor Mr Rick Smith. I appreciate Mr. Smith's comments, the book is a riveting read, I simply cannot put it down. I did work with Mr. Berkowitz at Yosemite National Park, but was involved in wilderness management, I did not get involved with Paul and his duties in law enforcement. I did work extensively with Park Ranger Jim Rlley and think Paul summed up things honestly when he indicated his focus (Paul's) was law enforcement while Mr. Riley was more traditional in his interests as a Park Ranger. Mr. Riley is one the finest men I worked with in my career and his confidence in Paul lends much creditability to Paul's book, at least in my own view. But more than that, Paul's book rings true, I am/was acquainted with many of the key players in the book on the NPS side, Paul has articulated the issues well. For those interested in what can go wrong (and then get straightened out by ethical and competent people), this book is a must read. I would like to thank Mr. Berkowitz for his outstanding effort here and hope that Mr. Malone has been made whole again by our legal system.

There are plenty of examples of national parks and wilderness areas administered by the National Forest Service where one pays a reservation fee if they choose to secure a backcountry permit days, weeks or months in advance. If, however, they choose to simply show up the day their trip begins (or post noon the day before) and get whatever permit (be it for a specific campsite or camp-zone, or for a trailhead quota) is still available as a walk-up (or walk-in), there is no fee. When even walk-ins are charged for a permit, it's effectively a backcountry camping fee. Sometimes it's a flat fee per group; sometimes it's a flat fee per person; sometimes it's a per night charge or some combination. Regardless, if there's no way to avoid a charge, there's no avoiding -- despite whatever calculated language administrators choose to employ -- what one is truly being charged for.

Lee, I think that if you are required to pay money before backpacking or camping, then, regardless of the justification, you are paying a backpacking or camping fee. I can't speak for other places, but here in the Smokies they instituted a reservation system for sites that didn't require reservations and never needed them whatsoever. Im talking about places where they average less than 2 people per night in sites rated for 12 and sometimes 14. I can see if it was some kind of backlogged place with all these overcrowded need for control and management but that simply wasn't the case in the Smokies. The shelters were the only place that ever came close to having a problem at certain times but that isn't backcountry camping in my opinion. The fee here is for ALL backcountry sites. Which are and have been empty most all of the time.

Kurt, I started looking into that link you sent and I appreciate it. I intend to delve more deeply into those numbers. I respect your opinion about the overall NPS attitude about backcountry camping, however, here in the Smokies there are troubling signs to the contrary, for example:

The recent closure of three backcountry campsites along Ace Gap Trail and Beard Cane. There is also the reduction in campers allowed at another closeby site, campsite 2 on Cane Creek which is in the same general vicinity. The most troubling thing is that all of these are near a resort and home of former TN governor. I can attest that campsite 2 is HUGE and can accomodate 10 at least. There is no issue about resource degradation here. Large, abused sites like those along Hazel Creek on the Carolina side, which are horse damaged beyond belief, remain wide open. Same with Laurel Gap shelter where equestrian damage has devastated the brand newly refurbished shelter, completed by volunteers, of course.

Is it possible that some people are confusing "reservation fee" with either the words "reservation" or "camping fee?" Seems like a big argument about words rather than an actual situation.

If I go to a campground entrance and fill out the little envelope, stuff the money into it and shove it into the box, I'm paying a "camping fee."

If I call ReserveAmerica or Recreation.gov and send the money to them, am I paying a "reservation fee" or is it a "camping fee?" Then, when I print out the paper bill -- as I did when I reserved a site at City of Rocks last week, I may find a line item there that says "Reservation fee = $10.00" There was also a line that read "Camp fee = $12.72 (Idaho tax included) x 3 nights = $37.26" Aren't we talking about two separate things?

I have the reservation for my upcoming stay of four nights at Arches in front of me and it says:

Use fee: $80

Interagency pass: -$40

Charge Visa: $40

I'm not sure, but could that be the case in the current fuss over backcountry camping in the Smokies? I admit, I'm thoroughly confused over that one. But is this really just an argument over semantics?

Switching sides of the continent makes ID a whole new adventure. The east sure has the west beat for warbler diversity and grandeur, in my opinion. I remember Jeffrey Gordon (American Birding Association President, not the NASCAR driver) saying, "The west has warblers like the east has mountains."

A teriffic story. thanks, Kirby. Warblers are difficult. Being a westerner makes it more so. I'll walk the dunes soon and will refer to the references in your story.

Sounds like a camping fee disguised as a reservation fee. Is anyone else here feeling like the NPS would prefer to decrease visitation to the backcountry of all NPS areas?

EC, you're claiming a false victory. You pay the fee to reserve a permit to camp in the backcountry, as the language Sara cited clearly states: "A $20 permit fee is assessed for each permit. This includes a $6 service fee which is required for each permit reserved."

How isn't it a reservation fee?

And if you try to duck that fee and simply wander into the wilderness area, what happens if you get caught without a permit? Odds are you get booted out and possible cited. The park sets limits on how many people can overnight in the backcountry and work to keep track by requiring folks to check in.

Thanks Sara - so the $20 isn't a "Reservation" fee.

Say Sara, if you are up to the risk of being investigated by the DOJ for leaks, can you get us a link to the detail proposal for the Pro Challange in CONM?

This is what it says on recreation.gov when you look at the fee policy for Fire Island:

"A $20.00 permit fee is assessed for each permit. This includes a $6.00 service fee which is required for each permit reserved."

My best guess is that the $6 service fee goes to the NRRS contractor, ReserveAmerica, as $14 is refundable if you cancel.