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Is Global Climate Change A Threat to National Parks? Another Response

Jun 5th - 17:39pm | ecbuck

yes algorithms and functions can change,We aren't talking about algorithms and functions.  We are tallking about the data.  If the temperature reads 76 and they record it as 78 they are "adjusting" (manipulating) the data. 

Jun 5th - 17:38pm | NPT Editors

Okay, folks - enough of the ping pong match. Unless you have some information on the topic of the story to add to the discussion, let's move on.

Jun 5th - 17:29pm | Gary Wilson

Man, I can tell you've never worked on anything that uses data.  I have worked in IT related industries most of my career, and yes algorithms and functions can change, if they are not accurate or are shown to present errors.  If variances, or even errors are discovered, then functions can be rewritten, slightly modified, and new queries that pull the data are generated.  Usually functions evolv

Jun 5th - 16:20pm | ecbuck

  Question:  "Gary, are these " scientists that are grounded in experimentation, math, and research" adjusting the data or not?"Answer (from Gary) "Isn't that how science works?"Thats not affirmation? Ok- I'll give you another chance - Are they adjusting the data or not?

Jun 5th - 15:50pm | ecbuck

Each of us has to make decisions about the caliber of informationYes, and my decision is to evaluate the information not the source. 

Jun 5th - 15:21pm | Jim Burnett

No, ec, I wasn't questioning the validity of content on a site because I'd never heard of it - that's no basis for anyone to discount a website.

Jun 5th - 15:10pm | Gary Wilson

Sorry, but copying and pasting an entire webpage into a comment to use it as your argument is not "citing".  I wish Kurt would just kill those posts, because they take up half a comment thread, when all beachdump has to do is post a link.  I love how you cherry pick my comments and take it out of context. I did not say anything about changing the data. I clearly said this:

Jun 5th - 14:27pm | ecbuck

Sorry, but copying and pasting an entire webpage into a comment to use it as your argument is not "citing".And exactly when did I do that?

Jun 5th - 14:12pm | ecbuck

Isn't that how science works?No its not.  You don't adjust the data to fit your hypothesis.   You adjust your hypothesis to fit the data. is simply called "plagarism",Citing someone elses work is hardly plagarism.  Manufacturing data is clearly deception.

Jun 5th - 13:53pm | Gary Wilson

Isn't that how science works?  One builds on the foundation of existing data and research.  That's what I learned in school.  That's why we EVOLVE.

Jun 5th - 13:41pm | Gary Wilson

It's simple.  There are polticians, that are mostly just marketers with great BS skills, and there are scientists that are grounded in experimentation, math, and research.  The politicians turn every little thing into a political football just to stir up division to obvious challenges.  This is how a majority of this country acts anymore, and it's why we are quickly becoming nothing more than a

Jun 5th - 13:40pm | ecbuck

Gary, are these " scientists that are grounded in experimentation, math, and research" adjusting the data or not?

Jun 5th - 12:57pm | beachdumb

It is troubling that anyone who dares to question the validity of global warming/ climate change and it’s causes is ridiculed for doing so.

Jun 5th - 12:16pm | wild places

It is troubling that anyone who dares to question the validity of global warming/ climate change and it’s causes is ridiculed for doing so. Good scientists are always questioning their results and the data that goes into them.  That is how the science gets better.

Jun 5th - 12:09pm | beachdumb

Some here lack reading comprehension skills... They are just dying to attack and/or critize everything you, I, or others with opposing view say though end up only make themselves look ignorant. 

Jun 5th - 11:46am | ecbuck

I agree Jim, anyone that thinks an organization has more crediblity simply based on the number of likes on their facebook page doesn't utilize strong critical thinking skills.

Jun 5th - 10:56am | Gary Wilson

I agree Jim, anyone that thinks an organization has more crediblity simply based on the number of likes on their facebook page doesn't utilize strong critical thinking skills.  This is like pretending that the average moron we elect to congress has more scientific knowledge than a nasa scientist that has spent 30 years of his/her life researching the subject.  The moron in congress might have 1

Jun 5th - 10:24am | Jim Burnett

Sadly, too many people today accept that just because a publication or organization has lots of "Facebook likes" or Twitter feeds, it surely must be credible. Yes, I admit in this case to dismissing the source.

Jun 5th - 10:23am | rmackie

Interesting comment Jim, I am not sure it is that difficult to research the sources of information we are all exposed to as you pointed out with "The Daily Caller".  That is important, as much that is put out there is bought and paid for by one advocacy group or another, some creditable, some not. In some cases it is just money driven, some are laughing all the way to the bank. 

Jun 5th - 09:27am | ecbuck

I'd never heard of that that site,That's your short coming not the Daily Caller's.  They have nearly a half million facebook page likes - more than twice Kurt's site.Rather than attacking the source, why don't you refute their argument?

Jun 5th - 09:14am | Jim Burnett

I presume a previous comment citing information from a website named "The Daily Caller" as a "credible source" is  intended to be satire. I'd never heard of that that site, so took a look.

Jun 5th - 09:07am | beachdumb

See? I rest my case.Stop staring in the mirror, you might learn something... 

Jun 5th - 08:34am | ecbuck

This is why the new "study" is not science and not credible.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/04/noaa-fiddles-with-climate-data-to-eras...

Jun 5th - 07:31am | Lee Dalton

See?  I rest my case. 

Jun 5th - 07:07am | beachdumb

But but, Obama says the cold weather is responsible for a .7% drop in the GDP.A co-author of the ‘Report’ writing on The Conversation said:

Jun 4th - 21:33pm | rmackie

Owen, thanks for the post. I attended a climate change workshop this last weekend in conjunction with other agenda items. Heading the panel was Jim Stewart. PhD, a noted expert on the issue here in California. Have you come across any of his posts?

Jun 4th - 20:33pm | ecbuck

There is increasing evidence that Homo Sapien is the dumbest species on earth.Really Lee.  Please show us the comparative study of the intelligence of Homo Sapiens against every other species.  Just another of your unsubstantiated accusations.

Jun 4th - 19:42pm | Lee Dalton

There is increasing evidence that Homo Sapien is the dumbest species on earth.It's not only the lesser animals that foul their nests.  Humans are doing a great job of fouling ours.  Thus compelling proof of our collective lack of intelligence. 

Jun 4th - 18:29pm | ecbuck

EC, I'm not aware of a credible method of scientific analysis that permits manipulation of data in order to support a pre-determined conclusion.Neither am I which is exactly why I find the claims not credible.  They take raw data and make adjustments to "account for anomolies and quirks".  But then when the results don't fit, they adjust again. 

Jun 4th - 15:52pm | Owen Hoffman

EC, I'm not aware of a credible method of scientific analysis that permits manipulation of data in order to support a pre-determined conclusion.  However, it's become more than obvious that the majority of one political party in this country has chosen not to believe present scientific evidence that human-caused climate change is real and serious.   

Jun 4th - 14:23pm | ecbuck

"The scientists replotted average annual surface temperatures since 1880 while accounting for changes and quirks in the readings, particularly anomalies from ocean ships and buoys."In other words they remanipulated the data to get the results they wanted.

Jun 4th - 14:10pm | Owen Hoffman

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150604-hiatus-climate-warming-temperature-denier-NOAA/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_

Higher Entrance, Camping Fees Coming To Rocky Mountain National Park

Jun 5th - 13:25pm | joseph

The yearly inflation rate, of an annual parks pass, from 2005-2009 is 3.4 percent.  The inflation is similar from 2009-2015 at 3.8 percent.  The rate increase spirals skyward, in the 2 year period from 2015-2017, at 9.5 percent.  Taking the years between 2009-2017, yearly inflation of an annual pass, is 5.2 percent.  2009 is the year the Federal Reserve opened the flood gates with a river of li

National Park Service: Sunset Crater Volcano Is NOT Erupting

Jun 5th - 11:31am | Lee Dalton

Aw, shucks.  And I had my camera all ready . . . . .

Grand Teton National Park: 3 Days In The Park

Jun 5th - 10:37am | NP_Day_Hiker

Great article Kurt!  It reminded me of some of my favorite things in Grand Teton National Park, one of my favorite parks in the NPS.

More Than 200,000 Said To Voice Opposition To Development On Grand Canyon National Park's Doorstep

Jun 5th - 07:43am | Lee Dalton

But why can't those developers simply buy the services of a few Congressmen to push through a big pipeline from Lake Powell to provide water for their development forever and ever?I just read that in the early 19th Century, members of Congress regularly came to the floor with knives in their belts.  Today they come with wads of lobbyist money in their pockets.

Spring In the National Parks: Where Can You Find Wildflowers?

Jun 5th - 06:14am | Acadia on my mind

The rhodora of Acadia National Park create a profusion of pink this time of year on trails and mountaintops, while smaller blooms like bluets dot the trails and sides of the Park Loop Road.

Bison Gores, Tosses Australian Visitor Several Times At Yellowstone National Park

Jun 4th - 11:24am | gutz54

Ya thunk?

Jun 3rd - 10:39am | Lee Dalton

There is mounting evidence that Homo Sapien is one of the dumbest species on Earth.

Jun 3rd - 07:58am | laborman

On a beach in Hawaii I saw an Asian family sit their infant kid right next to a nesting giant sea turtle for a picture.  People apparently think all these wild animals are tame zoo animals.  You would think peole would know better by now.

Jun 2nd - 19:13pm | Rick B.

Approaching that close looks like a pretty simple Action => Reaction.

Jun 2nd - 18:22pm | Megaera

Sigh.You'd think an Australian would know all about dangerous wildlife (at least my Australian friends seem to). 

A Few Musings From An Increasingly Dusty Lake Mead National Recreation Area

Jun 3rd - 19:52pm | Rangerskip

Lake Mead as I remember it from 1973-1977 is so different from today. I am sure I would have difficulty recognizing Echo Bay and the Overton Area. I was assigned to Callville Bay but spent time on all areas of the lake including Temple Bar, and of course, Las Vegas Wash and Boulder Beach. It was a great time to be a Park Ranger at Lake Mead.

Photography In The National Parks: Capturing Moonbows In Yosemite National Park

Jun 3rd - 12:20pm | sanctuaryphotos

Thanks for an excellent column, Deby. I've been following you since you got to Yellowstone. Read this several times yesterday before going up to the valley to shoot Yosemite Falls last night under a strawberry moon.

Birding In The National Parks: "Can't You See It? It's Right There!"

Jun 2nd - 18:49pm | MM

Thanks Kirby!   I, and my wife, live this story on every birding trip.  Your advice will make for more productive, and less stressful, birding.  The only thing left is to get our eyes at the same level.  Maybe I can find some lifts for her shoes! Mike

Op-Ed| Addressing The Backlog With New Backbone: History And The National Park Service Centennial

Jun 2nd - 18:39pm | Rick B.

Mundsy -With respect, your note and your pointed comments would be more meaningful if you clarified who the 'you' is you are addressing it to. Author of the original article? Author of the last previous comment? Etc?

Jun 2nd - 18:01pm | Mundsy

I feel like I just read a diatribe written by Grampa Simpson while he shook his fist and yelled at those durn kids to get off his lawn.  Required reading with tests?  States taking over NPS sites?  Accusations of the agency not teaching administrative history and mission?

Exploring The Sunny Side Of Mount Rainier National Park

Jun 2nd - 18:25pm | Megaera

I was at Paradise last week, and I couldn't believe how little snow there was.  Just a few plowed piles in the parking lot and a bit in the shady places, and that was about it.The early flowers are already spectacular.  It looks like early July up there.

Bryce Canyon, Cedar Breaks, Zion All Raising Fees

Jun 2nd - 16:14pm | ecbuck

More background on the traffic jam at Arches National Park and the reluctance of local businesses to endorse a park reservation system.That is the same article Lee posted. The one that said the issue wasn't a crowded park but rather a back up at the entry. 

Jun 2nd - 15:31pm | Owen Hoffman

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865629809/Jammed-highway-lights-fire-un...More background on the traffic jam at Arches National Park and the reluctance of local businesses to endorse a park reservation system.

National Parks Traveler's Essential Park Guide