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Regulatory Landscape For Guns to Change in National Parks on February 22

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Marble Hall in Sequoia National Park's Crystal Cave. NPS photo.

Is Marble Hall in Sequoia National Park's Crystal Cave a federal facility where you won't be able to carry a concealed weapon under the new gun regulations? NPS photo.

A controversial rule change concerning firearms in national parks takes effect February 22, a change likely to cause confusion and raise concerns over personal safety, but one also that could go largely unnoticed and give some a measure of personal security.

Foisted upon the National Park Service in a most curious way -- attached as an amendment to legislation that had nothing to do with national parks but everything to do with addressing credit cards -- the legislation has kept Park Service staff meeting for months on how to clear the way for park visitors to carry not just concealed weapons if they hold the requisite permits, but to openly carry rifles and shotguns.

Problems the Park Service hopes to have sorted out by February 22 include defensible definitions for what constitutes a federal facility -- Are the labyrinths that define Mammoth Cave? The warming huts in Yellowstone? Open-air facilities such as the Children's Theater-in-the-Woods at the Wolf Trap National Park for Performing Arts? The communal bathhouses at Curry Village in Yosemite? And they hope to have carefully navigated the various state laws that might use "firearms," "gun," "weapons," or some other nomenclature in their particular statutes.

Each park also is expected to have a handy information card for visitors that explains the rule change and outlines the applicable gun regulations for that park. But what looks good on paper might not look so good out in the field. For instance, how might rangers in parks with visible wildlife, such as Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain, Theodore Roosevelt, react if a visitor grabs his rifle simply to look through its scope to get a closer view of an elk or bison?

While the rule change has been applauded by many 2nd Amendment backers, there are ongoing efforts in New York, California, and Maine to block it in their states. In Maine, a legislative committee is expected late this week to consider a bill (see attached) that would circumvent the rule change for units of the National Park System in the Pine Tree State -- Acadia National Park, St. Croix Island International Historic Site, and the Appalachian Trail -- by making the previous firearms rule, which allowed weapons to be transported through parks as long as they were unloaded, broken down, and out of reach, the law.

"There is concern in a number of state legislatures by the fact that the new law, which will go into effect February 22, is NOT limited to concealed firearms being carried by permitted individuals with training. The new law allows for any kind of firearm to be carried in a national park unit unless the state forbids it," the National Parks Conservation Association said. "Some state legislators are troubled that that their state laws may not sufficiently keep firearms, such as holstered pistols, rifles, and semi-automatic weapons, from being openly carried in national park units in their states. They also worry that there could be adverse impacts on tourism.

"NPCA supports any effort at the state level to retain the firearm rules developed during the Reagan administration that simply require firearms to be unloaded and put away while visiting a national park unit. This is a reasonable requirement that has proven successful at maintaining America's parks as safe family friendly destinations. It has also served as an invaluable tool in combating poaching and harm to historical resources."

In Maine, Friends of Acadia, a non-profit that fosters and supports stewardship of Acadia, worked to see "LD 1737" introduced to the Legislature.

“The previous rules were working perfectly fine here in Acadia, and I think that for, especially for the rangers, the new firearms laws present a challenge," said Stephanie Clement, conservation director for the friends group. The old rule, she went on, made it easier for rangers to spot possible poachers; anyone carrying a firearm could be stopped. Under the rule change, it would no longer be that simple, she said.

“Really, it was a very effective anti-poaching tool. It was an opportunity for a point of contact, so that point of contact will be gone," said Ms. Clement.

Additionally, there are many park visitors who worry the rule change could actually endanger their personal safety, not enhance it, she said. While those who endorse the rule change say it will give them a greater sense of safety from wild animals and human predators, Ms. Clement said there are many others who dread the thought of pitching a tent next to another where there might be firearms, or hiking up trails with others carrying guns.

“It’s going to be a scary thing for a lot of visitors who don’t live in the Alaska wilderness or in places where people are used to seeing folks with open firearms," she said.

For the National Park Service, sorting through the regulatory changeover has been somewhat daunting. Under the change, firearm regulations in a specific park would resemble those of the state in which the park is located, except, however, when it comes to federal facilities. They would still be off-limits to visitors with guns. But what is a federal facility? Certainly, park headquarters and visitor centers would be considered federal facilities. But what about restrooms, warming huts, amphitheaters, or concession facilities?

“The federal facility law, the way I understand it, defines a federal facility as a building where federal employees work on a regular basis," explained David Barna, the Park Service's chief of communications. "Now, trying to find out what ‘regular’ means can also be difficult. We’re assuming that means if they work there weekly, that that’s probably a federal facility. But that would not include our concessions facilities.”

Campgrounds, shower facilities, and restrooms likely would not be federal facilities, since they're not regularly assigned duty stations, he added, "even though we may go in and clean them."

And yet, what about the campfire ring where there are regular ranger talks? Probably not a federal "facility," as there's no roof overhead, said Mr. Barna.

"So at a campfire talk, you would be able to carry your firearm," he said, only to pause before adding, "and again, all these things have so many caveats. In Virginia the state law says if it’s a gathering of children, it’s prohibited. So if you were at an amphitheater conducting a children’s program in the summer, in the state of Virginia, they will say that during that program you can’t have a firearm."

That's where the subtle nuances can change from state to state, and why the Park Service hopes to have those handy information cards ready for your visit beginning on February 22.

“We’ve asked all the parks, and we are going to have an all-superintendents phone call, and we’ve asked people to submit those instances where they do need to make a decision, and we’re going to make those decisions and just see how it plays out," Mr. Barna said.

As for Mammoth Cave and other parks with ranger-led cave tours?

“A cave is not a building, it’s not man-made," said the spokesman. "It is a place, however, where federal employees work on a regular basis, and we give tours, and almost all the instances, when you enter these big touring caves you’re entering through a federal facility to get into them anyway, there’s some gatehouse or entrance. Now, a cave out here in the woods, like out here behind my house, probably would not apply. In other words firearms would probably be OK. But in those places like Mammoth and Carlsbad where you actually enter through a federal facility to get into it, you probably could ban the firearms in those places.”

But when it comes to these caves, what constitutes a "federal facility"? At Crystal Cave in Sequoia National Park a ticket is purchased at the Foothills or Lodgepole visitor centers. At the cave, you hand your ticket to a ranger and pass through a gate into the cave. So where's the "facility"? A similar setup can be encountered at Mammoth Cave.

“We’re wrestling with those decisions. At some point somebody’s going to have to make a decision and let it be tested, I think," said Mr. Barna.

And then there are the concession facilities. In some parks these lodges and hotels are owned by concessionaires, in others they are park facilities leased to concessionaires.

"Concessionaires also have to operate under their state law. We’re not directing the concessions people for what they should or shouldn’t do," said Mr. Barna. "That’s kind of broken into two pieces. There is, the concessionaire dealing with the public, and there is the concessionaire dealing with their own employees. Someone in a staff meeting said they had heard -- I can’t verify this -- that Xanterra (Parks & Resorts) has as a condition of employment that their employees don’t carry firearms. They don’t want those firearms in the dorms where all of these young kids are, so they as an employer can probably do that for their employees.

"What their restrictions are on doing things for the public are something that those concessionaires are going to have to find out. How do restaurants out in the community operate?" he continued. "What can the owner/operator of a facility in that state do, and that should dictate what these concession operators can do. So it may very well be that you won’t have consistency across the country at restaurants in parks because the state laws aren’t consistent with restaurants.”

Requests made to Xanterra Parks & Resorts, Delaware North Parks, ARAMARK, and Forever Resorts for how they were dealing with the impending rule change were not immediately answered.

While Mr. Barna said there are expectations that some gun owners will show up in national parks on or after February 22 simply to showcase their 2nd Amendment rights, in the long run he hopes the rule change will quickly meld into the background.

“Even in the staff meetings you get that entire breadth of opinion ... people who are really concerned this will be a big issue, but I’m kind of the moderator who comes back and says, ‘You know, in Virginia you can carry these things now. I’ve lived in Virginia for 35 years and it’s not like you walk around the see people carrying openly," he said. "So it shouldn't be any different in the parks than it is in the states you’re in.

"...Certainly there will be those people whose view is, maybe they don’t feel safe because they know someone has weapons there. But remember, there are also those people who now feel safer because they do have their weapons," said Mr. Barna. "And so you’re going to have that whole gamut of opinion. We have had instances and emails from people on both sides of this issue, and certainly we’ve had people who say, back when the rule was proposed, 'The judge killed this, I’m never coming back to a national park until I can bring my weapons and protect my family and myself.'

"We’ve got to stay middle-of-the-road. We’re implementing a law like we implement all laws."

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Comments

VGOF Member:
Having said all that, virtually every law-abiding gun owning person I know is not only trained to use their weapon but are of the character to do so only as a last resort. Can you say the same? Let me pose a question. Suppose a bear came into a camp ground and a law-abiding with a gun was present. Suppose the bear attacked one of your children and the gun owner shot and killed or drove off the bear. Would you be grateful? Now suppose the gun owner did nothing. How would you feel about that? Would you sue them? Think people think...

I would think of it as a severe overreaction. I've seen bears in campgrounds, in the backcountry, and on the side of the road. I've also seen people who were freaked out about their presence. If someone started shooting a handgun with live ammunition (especially one that's more effective on humans than large wild animals) in a crowded campground, I'd be more worried about a stray bullet hitting me or someone else than the danger of a bear. Even the NPS doesn't use live ammunition on bears. They use CO2-powered paintball guns, rubber bullets, and pyrotechnics. And they remain calm and generally use them when there is low risk of hitting people.

Unfortunately the laws on concealed carry and/or open carry don't always require that anyone be properly trained in order to get a CCW permit or to open carry.


@y p w - You avoided the question and made up an answer. The question was "if the bear attacked one of your children..." Use of a weapon at that point would not be a "severe over reaction..." Unless you want your kid eaten up by a bear. I would really like to hear your answer to the question I asked...if you are willing to answer. And, please dont tell me a bear would never attack a kid. This is hypothetical...


This article and issue is, to me, much ado about nothing.


Kurt,

Regardless of what state law says, Public Law 111–24 very clearly states firearm.

[color=blue]The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if—
(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.[/color]

As for the definition of a "federal facility", I believe federal law already defines it in 18 USC 930

[color=blue](g)(1)The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.[/color]

There will also need to be signs "posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility". See 18 USC 930(h)

Gunowners have been dealing with these sort of hysterical, emotional, ill thought out, overreactions, for more than 20 years ever since concealed carry laws throughout the U.S. began to be reformed in 1987 with the passage of a "Right To Carry" law in Florida. Police chiefs and public officials have been publicly issuing their mea culpas when it became clear there would not "be blood in the streets over simple fender benders". This is no different.

Gunowners aren't all that worried about four legged or even legless predators. It's two legged predators that are the danger.

Ken Grubb
Puyallup, WA


I don't really care if people are walking around with guns in most situations, and I certainly have encountered gun owners in National Forests and State Parks without incident. However, this doesn't change two facts: (1) very many of these "law-abiding" gun owners are also complete idiots and (2) many of these people that feel so insecure that they have to bring a gun with them into all kinds of peaceful, civil settings like to use them to create an aura of intimidation.

I don't like being around people that are getting off on the fact that they have a device they can use to kill me. If they're using it for hunting, that's fine, but why the hell do they need to hang out with their guns in the campground? Also, this will certainly lead to the deaths of more megafauna, because (gun owners) will no longer have a need to treat wild animals with proper respect.

Anyway, to conclude my comments, I will say that I mourn the loss of National Parks as a place where you didn't have to worry about ... guns. Also, I noticed the 2nd amendment came up earlier. My suggestion is that gun (supporters) try reading the whole sentence at some point (i'm talking about the "well-regulated militia" that has nothing to do with you...).

This comment was edited. Ed.


Wow. How can you connect this with gun owners having no need to treat wild animals with proper respect? You really pulled that one out of the air. Law-abiding gun owners I know all have the greatest respect for wild animals. Most of us are hunters and live/hunt by a special set of ethics. I guess folks like you dont understand that. Regarding the 2nd Amendment - what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand? Do you even know why the 2nd Amendment exists? So "we the people" - which includes you - can protect ourselves from a tyrannous government. Study our history and think about how our country came into being. It was because out forefathers took up arms against King George and his tyranny. Our Founders wanted to make sure their descendants (that means us) had the right to do the same...You want to infringe the 2nd Amendment? If that happens, then we start down a slippery slope. Which amendment will be next? The 1st, 4th, 22nd? Think man think...


Self-defense against wild animals has a tragicomic element to it. Check out the data on bear mortality in this study (http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/reprint/41/2/298.pdf) and then compare with bear attack data here (http://www.bearrepellent.com/bear%20attack%20news.html).

Apparently, Swedish bears only attack you if you're carrying a gun.

(Or, what I suspect is the real reason: people with guns shoot bears and claim self-defense while unarmed people and bears leave each other alone.)


I'm not going to give an extensive reply because it isn't entirely germane to the article. Instead, i'll refer to my initial statement, where I suggested reading the ENTIRE 2nd amendment, and not just the first half. (Also, you don't actually have a legal right to revolution. It is your right, but don't expect it to hold up in court)

As far as respecting animals go, if you have the proper respect and behave accordingly, you don't need a gun to stay safe. I've been in the presence of bears and mountain lions many times, and I still have most of my fingers.


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