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Is It Time To Ban Comments On The Traveler?

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Has the time come to ban comments on the Traveler? That's not a philosophical question or a parlor game, but one driven by concerns among readers that constructive conversation is hard to come by on the site.

By and large, the volume of comments on the Traveler is dominated by a very, very small handful of individuals. And they can, at times, take things to extremes and give no quarter. More than a few times various commenters have accused others of being trolls, simply lurking out there, waiting to bait others into an argument, or made gratuitous comments, and worse.

And a handful of times a year we get private emails complaining about this behavior. Here's just the most recent example:

The NPT comments section has long been hijacked by conservative/libertarian trolls like ecbuck to the point that many of us who would *like* to engage in conversation and intelligent discourse regarding park issues are dissuaded from doing so by the truculent, confrontational, repetitive and axe-grinding nature of such ideologues. I am disappointed in your feckless moderation of the comments section because the parks are my passion and I would love to contribute, but I have come to the realization that I should take my participation -- and views of your ads -- elsewhere.

Now, whether Traveler's moderation of the comments queue is feckless is a matter of opinion. But we can tell you that we lack the manpower it takes to moderate on as strenuous a basis as some might hope.

What begs a question is whether there would be greater reader participation if the comments weren't seemingly monopolized by a handful of readers, some unafraid to wield an ax? With nearly 1.7 million readers a year, and less than a dozen regular commenters, you have to wonder.

Frankly, nothing would be more welcome to us than to see more reader involvement in the site.

The only lasting solution would be to bring an end to comments, which would be unfortunate, as we truly believe conversation is key to understanding, and possibly solving, some of the issues that the national parks face. Over the years we have reached out to those most criticized, have tried "no follow" buttons, and even banned folks, all to no avail.

So, how would you handle this situation?

While you ponder that question, let us repost our Code of Conduct for those who comment:

Code of Conduct

The blogosphere is a pretty free-wheeling place. As a result, it has developed a persona, right or wrong, of playing fast and loose with facts, with running roughshod over some posters, with allowing anonymity to serve as a shield for attackers. Some bloggers have called for a code of conduct for the blogosphere, and we at the Traveler support that movement.

As I mentioned recently, we view the Traveler as more of a web magazine than a blog. But that doesn't lessen the need for a code of conduct, both to guide the Traveler's writers and to let those who desire to comment on our articles to know there are limits as to what is appropriate.

For those who might immediately jump to the conclusion that we're implementing a measure of censorship, that's not the case at all. Rather, just as there are accepted norms for what can be broadcast and printed in mainstream media, there are accepted norms for the interchange of ideas on the Traveler. All we expect from you is a measure of civility. Here's how Colin Rule, director of the Center for Internet and Society, addresses the expectation of civil discourse:

So is it true that civility and politeness should go out the window when confronted with deep and intense feelings? Well, not to sound too much like "Mr. Manners," but I think it's at that point that civility and politeness come to matter more. When emotions get the better of someone, and that person uses language intended to incite and shock rather than reason, it creates an easy target for the other side; the most likely response becomes a similar provocative statement, and then the exchange becomes focused on the excesses of each statement rather than the issues at hand.

Beyond an expectation of civility there are times when, quite frankly, just as radio and television moderators feel a need to redirect their guests back to the subject at hand, it might be appropriate for us to steer the flurry of comments back to the topic at hand. And we won't hesitate to do that, as we have a very well specified mission statement that guides this patch of cyberspace.

With that said, here are some general guidelines that will guide the code of conduct for the Traveler (with the understanding that they could continue to evolve):

* The authors of posts take responsibility for their words.

* Abusive comments and personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted.

* Those behind abusive comments and personal attacks will be contacted privately and asked to be more constructive in their comments. If the comments and attacks persist, the author will be blocked from the site.

* Don't say anything online that you wouldn't say in person.

* If a subject of a post feels they have been wronged or simply wishes to respond in a post as opposed to a comment, that will be allowed.

In general, we at the Traveler have been pretty tolerant of comments. That's been evidenced most recently by some made this past weekend that were allowed to stand. We do not want to sanitize this forum, nor do we want to create the impression that it tilts one way or the other politically or philosophically. Yet there is a line, one that should not be crossed, in the common decency of civil discourse. If all you can do is throw stones and slurs, take it elsewhere.

Anonymous comments will continue to be allowed because there obviously are times when whistleblowers want to shield their identity, when the topic is political dissent, and when the individual doesn't want his/her comments attached to the organization they work for. That said, we encourage those who do not fall under those situations to be up front with who they are and not rely on what's been termed "drive by anonymity" to attack someone.

Regardless of how you decide to identify yourself, you are expected to adhere to the points above.

Comments

Argalite, why do you need the adjective--"legitimate?" I never said those studies were illegitimate, did I? I merely pointed out what they failed to consider--that when comparing bird kills by wind turbines and cats, we need to consider the context of the "kills."

As for my "stupid" cats, you tip your hand with that adjective that you only care about yourself. Anyone who has lived with animals knows that animals both love and think. The other day, I especially enjoyed reading the commentary about those wilderness dogs that their masters now sorely miss. I believe one of them was Gary Wilson, and it was an especially poignant post.

So, while you're off reading those "scientific" papers (and yes, I have read them, too), how about reading a volume or two on environmental ethics? And get yourself a pet. Dog or cat, it will love you without qualification. Just don't forget when it is time for lunch.


Hey, how can anybody accuse Alfred's cats of being stupid? They were smart enough to train him to feed them and clean their litter boxes, weren't they?

C'mon, folks, we need some smiles in the world this morning .  .  .


You got that right, Lee! I just cleaned their litter box, including all fresh litter, and just now Gracie scattered it all over the floor. She always wants to "break" the new litter in. She had Christine and me broken in by the time she was eight weeks old, and still bosses around her brother George. Meanwhile, they have a cushy towel on my desk where they keep me company. Today, I read them Argalite's comment, and they hardly raised an eyebrow. After all, when you're the king and queen of Seattle, who cares what the people think. However, George did seem to say, with one long meow, that everyone, yes, needs a sense of humor!


Who said I was talking about you, Gary?  It could have been anyone at the Great Smoky Mtns Association, a business organizationally tied to the National Park Service to sell products.

          


Fun comment Alfred Runte, and yes I thought Gary's comment on his wilderness hiking companion, his dog, was special. You are right about these huge solar farms, many people working against them here in the states environmental community as well as other citizen groups. I also think Argalite's position on cats has merit. Feral cats are becoming a big problem here in California, not only in urban parks like Golden Gate, but in communities throughout the San Joaquin Valley. Even Yosemite Valley has had a feral cat problem in the past. I rescued two abandoned black kittens left beside the highway a couple of months ago.  Brought them home, and as soon as they felt safe and had some food, they were really a kick. As I have many species of birds on the property, I turned them over to an animal shelter. In any case, have much fun with George and his sister.  Like you, I am also a pet lover. 


I have maybe commented once or twice on this forum . . ..I had started to add to that small quanitity on the first day of this discussion because, as a number of respected members have commented, we learn from one another.  Even those that irritate me greatly cause me to think.  I thought everything had been said with the leanings toward "live and let live" holding sway in what I hope Kurt will decide.  Until that last few bits of  hyperbole.  I still want to see comments, but I no longer feel that my words are without addiitional merit,.  Regardless of the irritants, we need to hear where others are/are coming from. . .   The Parks are an opportunity to see beyond ourselves -- listening to one another -- or backing away rather than attacking ad hominem -- is part of that.  I like having the comments! (and as an aside, that might also convict others, Kurt, I am behind on membership support, but will fix that!). 


I grew up with dogs all my life and have one now.  How presumpuous of you to think I care only for myself Alfred.  I have a turtle (nonnative) I hatched from an egg, and I do not think cats belong outside in cities and suburban areas because they are environmental disaters, indescriminate killing machines that decimate birds, lizards and mice, taking the food from native animals mouths!  Talk about environmental ethics! As far as I am concerned cats do not belong in North America, but nothing will remove them now.  I guess some favor certain types of birds over others.  They all have their value and while raptor numbers may be up since DDT almost wiped them out, both songbirds or raptors are not doing well


Yes, Argalite, it's too bad that when cats came to North America, there was no one around to build a wall. However, the same could be said for many dogs, could it not? Every few months, a pit bull in Seattle takes down some child or adult. And indeed, show me the postal carrier that has ever been bitten by a cat. As for your nonnative turtle, please, just keep it out of Everglades National Park.

Cats are predators, no doubt about it. But that does not make them "indiscriminate killing machines," as you put it. Beginning under Stephen T. Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, the same prejudice was used to eliminate all predators from the national parks, up to and including wolves. Speaking of predators, do you call yourself an "indiscriminate killing machine" every time you eat steak, pork, or chicken? No, because someone else has done your killing for you, and carefully packaged your prey in Saran Wrap.

Logic, Argalite, logic. Every prejudice falls apart on logic. How is it logical to argue that any predator should be killed simply for being a predator? Speaking of which, many dogs are predators, too, and just as "nonnative" as the cats you allege should be wiped off the face of North America for "taking the food from native animals mouths."

You end by saying that "both songbirds or raptors are not doing well," noting the role of DDT. Was DDT invented by cats? No, but wind turbines were sure invented by humans, and need to be carefully placed well off our major wildlife refuges, national parks, and flyways.

Is that happening? No. When it does you can start blaming cats for the problem. Meanwhile, we are the problem. Certainly, most corporate executives that should be listening to biologists would rather pay for an EIS that ignores biology. After all, biology gets in everyone's way.


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