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Regulatory Landscape For Guns to Change in National Parks on February 22

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Marble Hall in Sequoia National Park's Crystal Cave. NPS photo.

Is Marble Hall in Sequoia National Park's Crystal Cave a federal facility where you won't be able to carry a concealed weapon under the new gun regulations? NPS photo.

A controversial rule change concerning firearms in national parks takes effect February 22, a change likely to cause confusion and raise concerns over personal safety, but one also that could go largely unnoticed and give some a measure of personal security.

Foisted upon the National Park Service in a most curious way -- attached as an amendment to legislation that had nothing to do with national parks but everything to do with addressing credit cards -- the legislation has kept Park Service staff meeting for months on how to clear the way for park visitors to carry not just concealed weapons if they hold the requisite permits, but to openly carry rifles and shotguns.

Problems the Park Service hopes to have sorted out by February 22 include defensible definitions for what constitutes a federal facility -- Are the labyrinths that define Mammoth Cave? The warming huts in Yellowstone? Open-air facilities such as the Children's Theater-in-the-Woods at the Wolf Trap National Park for Performing Arts? The communal bathhouses at Curry Village in Yosemite? And they hope to have carefully navigated the various state laws that might use "firearms," "gun," "weapons," or some other nomenclature in their particular statutes.

Each park also is expected to have a handy information card for visitors that explains the rule change and outlines the applicable gun regulations for that park. But what looks good on paper might not look so good out in the field. For instance, how might rangers in parks with visible wildlife, such as Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain, Theodore Roosevelt, react if a visitor grabs his rifle simply to look through its scope to get a closer view of an elk or bison?

While the rule change has been applauded by many 2nd Amendment backers, there are ongoing efforts in New York, California, and Maine to block it in their states. In Maine, a legislative committee is expected late this week to consider a bill (see attached) that would circumvent the rule change for units of the National Park System in the Pine Tree State -- Acadia National Park, St. Croix Island International Historic Site, and the Appalachian Trail -- by making the previous firearms rule, which allowed weapons to be transported through parks as long as they were unloaded, broken down, and out of reach, the law.

"There is concern in a number of state legislatures by the fact that the new law, which will go into effect February 22, is NOT limited to concealed firearms being carried by permitted individuals with training. The new law allows for any kind of firearm to be carried in a national park unit unless the state forbids it," the National Parks Conservation Association said. "Some state legislators are troubled that that their state laws may not sufficiently keep firearms, such as holstered pistols, rifles, and semi-automatic weapons, from being openly carried in national park units in their states. They also worry that there could be adverse impacts on tourism.

"NPCA supports any effort at the state level to retain the firearm rules developed during the Reagan administration that simply require firearms to be unloaded and put away while visiting a national park unit. This is a reasonable requirement that has proven successful at maintaining America's parks as safe family friendly destinations. It has also served as an invaluable tool in combating poaching and harm to historical resources."

In Maine, Friends of Acadia, a non-profit that fosters and supports stewardship of Acadia, worked to see "LD 1737" introduced to the Legislature.

“The previous rules were working perfectly fine here in Acadia, and I think that for, especially for the rangers, the new firearms laws present a challenge," said Stephanie Clement, conservation director for the friends group. The old rule, she went on, made it easier for rangers to spot possible poachers; anyone carrying a firearm could be stopped. Under the rule change, it would no longer be that simple, she said.

“Really, it was a very effective anti-poaching tool. It was an opportunity for a point of contact, so that point of contact will be gone," said Ms. Clement.

Additionally, there are many park visitors who worry the rule change could actually endanger their personal safety, not enhance it, she said. While those who endorse the rule change say it will give them a greater sense of safety from wild animals and human predators, Ms. Clement said there are many others who dread the thought of pitching a tent next to another where there might be firearms, or hiking up trails with others carrying guns.

“It’s going to be a scary thing for a lot of visitors who don’t live in the Alaska wilderness or in places where people are used to seeing folks with open firearms," she said.

For the National Park Service, sorting through the regulatory changeover has been somewhat daunting. Under the change, firearm regulations in a specific park would resemble those of the state in which the park is located, except, however, when it comes to federal facilities. They would still be off-limits to visitors with guns. But what is a federal facility? Certainly, park headquarters and visitor centers would be considered federal facilities. But what about restrooms, warming huts, amphitheaters, or concession facilities?

“The federal facility law, the way I understand it, defines a federal facility as a building where federal employees work on a regular basis," explained David Barna, the Park Service's chief of communications. "Now, trying to find out what ‘regular’ means can also be difficult. We’re assuming that means if they work there weekly, that that’s probably a federal facility. But that would not include our concessions facilities.”

Campgrounds, shower facilities, and restrooms likely would not be federal facilities, since they're not regularly assigned duty stations, he added, "even though we may go in and clean them."

And yet, what about the campfire ring where there are regular ranger talks? Probably not a federal "facility," as there's no roof overhead, said Mr. Barna.

"So at a campfire talk, you would be able to carry your firearm," he said, only to pause before adding, "and again, all these things have so many caveats. In Virginia the state law says if it’s a gathering of children, it’s prohibited. So if you were at an amphitheater conducting a children’s program in the summer, in the state of Virginia, they will say that during that program you can’t have a firearm."

That's where the subtle nuances can change from state to state, and why the Park Service hopes to have those handy information cards ready for your visit beginning on February 22.

“We’ve asked all the parks, and we are going to have an all-superintendents phone call, and we’ve asked people to submit those instances where they do need to make a decision, and we’re going to make those decisions and just see how it plays out," Mr. Barna said.

As for Mammoth Cave and other parks with ranger-led cave tours?

“A cave is not a building, it’s not man-made," said the spokesman. "It is a place, however, where federal employees work on a regular basis, and we give tours, and almost all the instances, when you enter these big touring caves you’re entering through a federal facility to get into them anyway, there’s some gatehouse or entrance. Now, a cave out here in the woods, like out here behind my house, probably would not apply. In other words firearms would probably be OK. But in those places like Mammoth and Carlsbad where you actually enter through a federal facility to get into it, you probably could ban the firearms in those places.”

But when it comes to these caves, what constitutes a "federal facility"? At Crystal Cave in Sequoia National Park a ticket is purchased at the Foothills or Lodgepole visitor centers. At the cave, you hand your ticket to a ranger and pass through a gate into the cave. So where's the "facility"? A similar setup can be encountered at Mammoth Cave.

“We’re wrestling with those decisions. At some point somebody’s going to have to make a decision and let it be tested, I think," said Mr. Barna.

And then there are the concession facilities. In some parks these lodges and hotels are owned by concessionaires, in others they are park facilities leased to concessionaires.

"Concessionaires also have to operate under their state law. We’re not directing the concessions people for what they should or shouldn’t do," said Mr. Barna. "That’s kind of broken into two pieces. There is, the concessionaire dealing with the public, and there is the concessionaire dealing with their own employees. Someone in a staff meeting said they had heard -- I can’t verify this -- that Xanterra (Parks & Resorts) has as a condition of employment that their employees don’t carry firearms. They don’t want those firearms in the dorms where all of these young kids are, so they as an employer can probably do that for their employees.

"What their restrictions are on doing things for the public are something that those concessionaires are going to have to find out. How do restaurants out in the community operate?" he continued. "What can the owner/operator of a facility in that state do, and that should dictate what these concession operators can do. So it may very well be that you won’t have consistency across the country at restaurants in parks because the state laws aren’t consistent with restaurants.”

Requests made to Xanterra Parks & Resorts, Delaware North Parks, ARAMARK, and Forever Resorts for how they were dealing with the impending rule change were not immediately answered.

While Mr. Barna said there are expectations that some gun owners will show up in national parks on or after February 22 simply to showcase their 2nd Amendment rights, in the long run he hopes the rule change will quickly meld into the background.

“Even in the staff meetings you get that entire breadth of opinion ... people who are really concerned this will be a big issue, but I’m kind of the moderator who comes back and says, ‘You know, in Virginia you can carry these things now. I’ve lived in Virginia for 35 years and it’s not like you walk around the see people carrying openly," he said. "So it shouldn't be any different in the parks than it is in the states you’re in.

"...Certainly there will be those people whose view is, maybe they don’t feel safe because they know someone has weapons there. But remember, there are also those people who now feel safer because they do have their weapons," said Mr. Barna. "And so you’re going to have that whole gamut of opinion. We have had instances and emails from people on both sides of this issue, and certainly we’ve had people who say, back when the rule was proposed, 'The judge killed this, I’m never coming back to a national park until I can bring my weapons and protect my family and myself.'

"We’ve got to stay middle-of-the-road. We’re implementing a law like we implement all laws."

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Comments

You're kidding us, right Outdoormjd?

You're going to blame NPCA for an amendment the NRA successfully urged/convinced Sen. Coburn to attach to a bill that had absolutely no connection with national parks?

Put the blame/responsibility where it belongs, on the NRA and the Congress.


I really don't know if it's such a great idea. I'm trying to imagine someone in Yosemite with a CCW permit at a crowded campground. If a bear shows up looking for food and maybe bluff charges someone, is there a chance that someone severely overreacts and tries to shoot 300-400 lb black bear with a handgun? That's of course a big if given training and adrenaline pumping. Even if they could manage to hit it, there are people all around in tents that offer little resistance to stray bullets that could ricochet off the ground or rocks.

I don't buy the argument that "law abiding" means much. It doesn't mean that someone who is well-intentioned might not panic in a pressure situation where a firearm is far more dangerous to people than the animal.


It's funny that the "honest law abiding" gun owners who chafe so much at federal restrictions are so happy given the way this new rule came about. The gun rider attached to a credit card bill was a way for the NRA and their supporters to force their agenda on the rest of us without even going through the debate process. You've got to hand it to them, it was a very clever way for the NRA to game the system. It was skeezy and dishonest, and an exercise on how to stretch the definition of "law-abiding".

P.S. Does anyone seriously think their little handgun will stop that charging bear or moose? Please.

Today's captcha: war ensues (no kidding!)


Protecting ones self from wild animals aside, here is the deal. The 2nd Amendment gives all of us the right to posses and carry firearms period. Not being able to carry in a National Park or anywhere else for that matter is an infringement on that Constitutional right. Just a little food for thought - if one Constitutional right should be limited what about others. If you antis win the fight and severely limit or do away with our 2nd Amendment rights how long will it be before someone else gets a silly notion that another right (pick any of the more than 2 dozen amendments) is not good and must go? And, if you dont think that will ever happen then you are living with your head buried firmly in the sand. Think people. Our Constitution and the rights therein are sacred and vital to our freedom - each and every one of them. If one can fall, then they all are subject to fall. Do you really want that? I hope not...

Having said all that, virtually every law-abiding gun owning person I know is not only trained to use their weapon but are of the character to do so only as a last resort. Can you say the same? Let me pose a question. Suppose a bear came into a camp ground and a law-abiding with a gun was present. Suppose the bear attacked one of your children and the gun owner shot and killed or drove off the bear. Would you be grateful? Now suppose the gun owner did nothing. How would you feel about that? Would you sue them? Think people think...


Bat:
P.S. Does anyone seriously think their little handgun will stop that charging bear or moose? Please.

Well - the movie version of Into the Wild depicted McCandless as bringing down a moose by repeatedly plugging it with a .22LR. I suppose that might be possible, but people I've met who hunted said that anything shot with an unjacketed lead bullet couldn't be eaten unless the wound areas were cut out.

I've read about the San Francisco Zoo case where several officers tried to take town a Siberian tiger with their department-issued .40S&W handguns. It took a lot of from maybe 4 officers, and they reported that it didn't even get phased after the first few. Now a charging grizzly bear with real intent to protect its young and one person with a hangun? I've heard in Alaska, they won't even recommend that. Brown bear self-defense supposedly requires shotgun slugs. Have fun carrying that around.

There was the case of someone legally open carrying on a trail where he shot at a mentally deranged man. Some feel it was an unarmed and otherwise harmless lunatic ranting, but he shot him 3 times in the chest with a 10mm handgun. It sounded to me more like a case where something that was misinterpreted escalated once he started firing shots. I'm sure some feel it was justified, but I'm thinking what might have been if he hadn't been carrying a gun and decided to use it to scare off a few dogs.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/05/16/200905...


On of the main problems that I think is going to arise from this is that state laws are all different. In some of the parks that cover more than one state, the law is going to change depending which part of the park you're in. In Death Valley, which is mainly in CA, you can only carry a weapon if you have a CA permit...they don't recognize other states. But if you're in the NV section then you're allowed to carry. I do have to say it was a lot easier to figure out when it was no guns at all. The new law says that "The Sec. of Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation from possessing a firearm...in any unit of the NPS." To me that's a little confusing due to all those state laws and isn't the White House also considered a NPS unit? Does that mean we can now carry guns there?

One anonymous commenter stated that poaching won't increase, but the persecution of said poachers may decrease. Often the rangers couldn't get enough evidence to persecute for poaching in the parks, but they could get them on having weapons. Now that won't be able to happen anymore.

I do not have a personal issue with people carrying guns. The bad guys don't care what the law is anyway. But I do have an issue with the 2nd amendment simply because (and please don't take this as me having a problem with our rights) that was written long before hand guns existed. That was when almost every person hunted and was a member of the militia. They were also really big guns that were hard to conceal and even harder to load. You took one shot and then took 2 minutes before you could shoot again. The guns now are very, very different and I think our laws do need to change to reflect that.


I'm not a big fan of this new regulatory change, but I would note at the time of the 2nd amendment there were such things as handguns. Handguns of certain types (muskets, flintlocks, muzzle-loaders, etc) were around since the invention of firearms. I'd think most people with a knowledge of American history would know that dueling pistols existed at the time of the Bill of Rights. Perhaps they weren't the large-capacity semi-automatic handguns or modern revolvers. It frankly wouldn't have been hard to conceal a pistol under a coat.

And CAPTCHA for today is "gonad to".


Well, you may carry your weapons all you want. Cool. The new law does not allow USE.

Will there be visitors who freak by someone having a gun? Yep. Will there be folks who want to make a point on Feb 22 and stride into parks armed and open carrying rifles etc.? Yep.

It wasn't that long ago that NPS management wouldn't allow their own sworn officers to wear their weapons in the visitor center, for fear of "upsetting and or scaring visitors."

Be interesting to see how it all plays out.


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