| Page 1157 | National Parks Traveler

Matt makes the point that the NPS was short sighted, and had not anticipated the impact of population growth on the Seashore (among other areas. Sometimes government agencies do have internal reports and evaluations of issues and trends, but the political leaders of the agency never permit the agency to act on the obvious conclusions.

Jan 10th - 18:40pm | Ron Saunders

Anon 3:13 Thanks for the backup. A little common sense still goes a long way in my book. It's kinda funny in a way, some will make a statement and have to spend forever trying to convince you that it is so. Truth is generally self evident, not in need of convincing. I think I heard something like that somewhere. You know it when you hear it, even if you don't like it. Ron

Jan 10th - 16:13pm | Anonymous

Ron, it is known that the recreational activities have actually helped the Plovers and other birds. But the NPS/AS/DOW don't want you to know that. Some biologists believe that the recreational activities, including ORVs traveling by, help reduce predation. But they'll never admit that...

Jan 10th - 15:11pm | Ron Saunders

IF I WERE A PLOVER I happen to be a human being. Male, average type, bout 66 years old, Family man. I have a home with an average yard. I have Kids, Grandkids and a dog named Bobby.

Jan 10th - 15:11pm | Matt Stubbs

Wow Kurt I guess we are both old and like the classics. I was going to channel Seinfeld but thought better of it...

Jan 10th - 13:51pm | Ron Saunders

Speaking of "future generations". My wife and I have a picture on the wall at our cottage. It is a favorite of everyone. It is very simple. It was taken at the north point at Oregon Inlet. It is a group picture of four generations of our family. Very young to eighty plus. The day was one that will be remembered lovingly by many.

Jan 10th - 13:43pm | Anonymous

"Sadly, visitation numbers across the entire park system are often little more than guesstimates." So why is it so hard for everyone to believe that the "boots on the ground" view of the visitation numbers are down since the changes.

Jan 10th - 13:38pm | Kurt Repanshek

>>if the NPS did not want us to have access they would not be called a park and placed it on a beach.<< Channeling George Carlin, Matt? Great word play!

Jan 10th - 13:34pm | Matt Stubbs

"Matt, you are a future generation, but there was not 2 million people visiting the areas 50 years ago. Also, I made a point of saying impacts from any activity because in terms of wildlife, pedestrians can have, in some case, more impacts on wildlife than any form of motorized recreation (flushing birds off nests, walking on/over dunes, etc)."

Jan 10th - 12:57pm | Anonymous

"How do you define "historical" and "traditional"?"

Jan 10th - 12:17pm | Kurt Repanshek

Matt,

Jan 10th - 12:11pm | Ryan

Matt, you are a future generation, but there was not 2 million people visiting the areas 50 years ago. Also, I made a point of saying impacts from any activity because in terms of wildlife, pedestrians can have, in some case, more impacts on wildlife than any form of motorized recreation (flushing birds off nests, walking on/over dunes, etc).

Jan 10th - 12:03pm | Anonymous

"Later this week we'll report on a survey of how businesses predict the new management plan will impact them. It's not encouraging." Well, that report ought to be a big "duh"...

Jan 10th - 11:51am | Matt Stubbs

Show us the degradation with proof it was and is caused by ORV's... And if you can please explain why pedestrians are being punished the same way? And by the way no one has stepped to the plate to say who they were talking about 50+ years ago when they said "Future Generations"?

Jan 10th - 11:47am | Ryan

Well, that is certainly arguable...but beside the point. So impacts to wildlife, regardless of activity is not an impact? How do you define "historical" and "traditional"?

Jan 10th - 11:32am | Anonymous

"Just because an areas managed by the NPS has "recreation" in its title does not allow for the degradation of the particular site. All NPS units are still required to adhere to the 1916 Organic act, not arguing here, just stating facts."

Jan 10th - 10:43am | Kurt Repanshek

Visitation statistics are interesting creatures, but they can be incredibly soft and lead to more questions than answers.

Jan 10th - 10:34am | Ryan

Just because an areas managed by the NPS has "recreation" in its title does not allow for the degradation of the particular site. All NPS units are still required to adhere to the 1916 Organic act, not arguing here, just stating facts. From the 1916 Organic act that created the NPS (which, just as a reminder, CAHA is a part of):

Jan 10th - 10:18am | Matt Stubbs

I have also heard that a large amount of visitation lately is due to the economy with people attempting to recreate in Cape Hatteras versus flying somewhere. This of coarse is only temporary as the economy should improve and the beaches will only close more and more areas for breeding.

Jan 10th - 09:03am | Ginny

From Kurt "July's vacation rentals along Cape Hatteras were at a record high; the motels, hotels, B&Bs, and campgrounds took in $101.7 million in July, a 16 percent increase over July 2009 revenues."

Jan 10th - 08:52am | Ginny

Add to logging and livestock, the USFWS. They created impondments, wetlands, and burn vegetation annually. If it weren't for their efforts I bet Pea Island would look more like the heavily vegetated area between Avon and Rhodanthe/Salvo/Waves. Note, there is never overwash in this area.

Jan 10th - 08:21am | Matt Stubbs

Another undereducated ANON.... Look into your Cape Hatteras history a little more and please keep things in context better.

Jan 10th - 07:38am | Anonymous

It has always interested me in this controversy that the ORV advocates point to the environmentalists as the unreasonable side who started this mess. Who filed the first lawsuit in this controversy? It was the ORV groups who filed the lawsuit challenging the designation of critical habitat for the plover on the Seashore.

Trickle of Documents Highlights National Park Service's Mistakes In Hubbell Trading Post Investigation

Jan 11th - 12:29pm | Anonymous

7000 pieces of jewelry is an insane amount. That has to be the largest amount of Indian jewelry ever collected. Almost one piece for every day Bill Malone was there. 557 rugs is also a huge amount. I guess it could be worse - he could have been hoarding cats.

Jan 11th - 08:34am | Keeper

"Hartzog erupted vehemently that he would not countenance another god-damned dead embalmed historic site, that it must be a living trading post," The best line I've heard by anyone in NPS leadership. That's "Getting Real!"

Jan 11th - 08:28am | Keeper

Ha Ha Ha, if we could shed some light on the numbers and motivations of your world I'm hoping that more of what's happened at Hubbell and the Canyon by familiar faces is not widespread. There are questionable choices made with what seems like a parallel universe when it comes to money, career paths, personal bias and trust.

Jan 10th - 22:28pm | NPS planner

These mule guys need to get real. The canyon is 300 million in the hole maintenance wise 25 million on the trails 90 percent caused by the mules. Get the Canyon so get the canyon some funds and keep the mules. They are so self centered and personal they don't understand the issue

Jan 10th - 19:34pm | Keeper

To NPS field employee: If there hadn't been countless efforts requesting more information (including FOIA) on this and the issue I've brought up there might be more confidence in the process. The darkness makes one think that things are running amok and protecting careers are a higher priority than the public trust, imagine that.

Jan 10th - 18:43pm | NPS field empolyee

this definitely keeps up with the fields view of NPT as National Park Tattler. Leave it alone, and if you are going to report try to get all the facts and drop the witch hunt. The investigators blew it, but they were good people, just didnt handle it well. One of the pproblems of taking the special agents out from direct supervision by superintnedents and moving them to DC.

Jan 10th - 18:42pm | Keeper

I appreciate the reporting and comments but the best statement (my opinion) I noted in the reporting came from Ex NPS Director Hartzog. "Hartzog erupted vehemently that he would not countenance another god-damned dead embalmed historic site, that it must be a living trading post," Mr. Utley recalled to the history's authors, Albert and Ann Manchester.

Jan 10th - 14:50pm | Anonymous

It is interesting with all of the authors investigation the fact that the special agents did not work for snyder or martin is not pointed out. The special agents are out of the line of supervision and influence of management and supervised directly out of washington DC. And of course NPS will not comment when a law suit is still under way.

Jan 10th - 14:26pm | MRC

Thanks for reporting this story. I'm not really interested in the current aspects of the criminal investigation, stuff happens and who is surprised that NPS does not exactly advertise with its mistakes. But I was fascinated with the atmosphere when I was in Hubbell Trading Post long ago but did not really understood the importance of the site.

Jan 10th - 13:21pm | Keeper

With Dr. Cid Martin as Special Assistant for Intermountain Indian Affairs and American Culture did she have any involvement in the Hubbel issue during Intermountain Regional Director Steve Martin rein?

Jan 10th - 09:49am | Field Ranger

Wow, what a sensationalized bit of reporting. Perhaps enough to make me not wish to read the "Traveler" any longer.

Jan 10th - 08:25am | Rich Granberg

The Hubbel affair has erie similarities to another effort spearheaded by, the now retired, Mr. Martin. The lack of transparency by NPS and the concessionaire under Superintendent Martin involving FOIA and the willingness to answer direct questions that could illuminate the real motivations for gutting the Grand Canyon Mule Rides, is very familiar to those close to the issue.

Photo Spot: Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park

Jan 11th - 10:58am | justinh

Followed the Warner Trail on a dawn hike down to the river--pretty spectacular place. Thanks for your photographs. While I was preparing for my backpacking trip through the parks last summer, I spent a LOT of time looking at your parks map and gazing at your photographs--amazing pictures!

Facebook Promotion With Lowe's Could Gain Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars for National Park Foundation

Jan 11th - 09:42am | Lee Dalton

I can't help worrying at least a little about promotions like this. Is there a chance that the park or NPS might somehow wind up obligated to the business involved in some way?

Jan 10th - 07:07am | Connie Hopkins

I voted too and posted a link on Face Book for all of my friends to go and vote as well!

Summering at Cape Lookout National Seashore: The Logistics

Jan 10th - 12:50pm | Ranger

@Ron Saunders: This is one of the many reasons why we like you so much Kurt. There, I fixed it.

Political Lineup For House Natural Resources Committee Sure to Produce Fireworks Over Public Lands

Jan 10th - 11:50am | Anonymous

I find it very interesting that the comment about "finding ways to sustain a satisfactory quality of life while using less energy and wasting less energy" was referred to as an extreme argument. This is a very reasonable argument! If people do not realize that this is what we as a nation must dedicate ourselves to accomplish, they are the extremists.

Dan Wenk Moving From NPS Headquarters to Yellowstone National Park as Superintendent

Jan 10th - 10:07am | Rich Teer

Everybody is worried about snowmobiles making noise. What about thousands of Harleys, and class A motorhomes

Rooms At Yavapai Lodge in Grand Canyon National Park Get Makeover

Jan 10th - 09:21am | Anne in Canada

Our family is beginning to plan a trip to the Grand Canyon. Thanks for this post. We just booked into Yavapai Lodge and were a bit disappointed that Bright Star was unavailable. Your post has put our mind to easy. Looks like a great room at a reasonable price.

Piping Plover Production Up At Cape Hatteras National Seashore

Jan 10th - 07:40am | Matt Stubbs

Kurt I will simply add this. Yes 15 chicks fledged, but 16 were killed (none by ORV) This is less than 50% survival rate with ORV's and pedestrians subdued by draconian closure buffers.

Echoes of the Cold War in the Tropical Warmth of Everglades National Park

Jan 9th - 19:55pm | J North

Nick, also looking but for Brty B. 24E20,SP-5, only there 6 months from ROK (C-1-44). I have been looking via google earth but alot has changed since '78. From what I can recall I was thinking between Flordia City and Homestead, East. The NASCAR track might be the area.Good Luck !

Florida Officials To Install Panther Detection System With Hopes of Slowing Road Kills

Jan 9th - 17:57pm | Anonymous

The tribes were only a part of reason it wasn't built. Defenders of Wildlife and FDOT made a nice back room deal to transfer millions of dollars to the oversight of a non-governmental organization. They were arrogant enough to even put in in print. Once the local media and state reps found out the party was over.

Interior Secretary Sets Aside 17 Fee-Free Days Across the National Park System

Jan 9th - 14:58pm | Ron Saunders

Kurt, Yours and "For Hatteras Open Access" are both basically accurate information depending on what and when NPS policy measures are initiated which is a little up in the air right now as you know. The glaring fact that these posts bring out is that a place, liki Cape Hatteras, that has been loved for its simplicity is being so drastically changed.

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