| Page 1156 | National Parks Traveler

Sounds odd but why discriminate in favor of just the handicapped. It isn't a bus ride to the bottom. There are many that have never even been on an animal that come to the Canyon and might not be ready but would come back years later and climb on a mule and go into the Grand Canyon. I REALLY respect anyone who pushes their comfort zone and does something like that.

Jan 13th - 14:30pm | Laurie

"who actually take responsibility and prepare ourselves for the Grand Canyon and other back country areas we access"

Jan 13th - 14:21pm | Rich Granberg

I had written something earlier to head off what I knew was coming, LOL. It was good, too, but my lap top lost it so this is a bit late. I did get a chuckle, oddly. I've had the same reactions of both Spirit and Matt. Flip side of the same coin, really. Everything seems divisive these days. At any rate it seems out of place and not becoming of what the Canyon is about.

Jan 13th - 14:14pm | y_p_w

I don't get the term "elitist" being bandied around here to describe either those who will pay or those who are physically fit enough to hike down then up the canyon trails. The overnight ride is almost $500. I also saw some people going down the South Kaibab Trail who weren't exactly super fit.

Jan 13th - 12:38pm | Matt Stubbs

Lets take it to the next level of elitisms and have the NPS destroy all trails down and up and force you to rapel into the canyon and rock climb out. The non elite elderly, handicapped and couchpatatoes either can take a copter (oops these are eliminated also as they distract the elitist tranquil surroundings) or watch it on tv (filmed by the very elitist who decline your access)

Jan 13th - 12:04pm | Spirit Coyote

Reply to Stubbs:

Jan 13th - 11:27am | Matt Stubbs

You are an elitist by the fact that you state everyone else is not like you and should not be allowed the same things as you. Tell this to a handicapped or elderly person tough guy.

Jan 13th - 09:10am | Spirit Coyote

Mr Clayton states, “It kind of makes it sound like we might have some elitists at the helm" I never understood why someone who opts out of more expensive transportation (in this case mules) and chooses to walk is then disparaged as an "elitist." The same attitudes seen here regarding the mule rides are seen throughout any debate regarding travel management on public lands.

Jan 12th - 18:18pm | Casey Murph

The rim ride that has replaced 75 percent of the mule rides into the canyon is nothing that even resembles a Grand Canyon mule ride. It is nothing more that an ordinary trail ride through common northern Arizona pinyon and juniper, and the mule riders never will see that canyon once from the saddle.

Jan 12th - 12:34pm | skeptic

There is documentation on how very little NPS has done to maintain the trails ... the evidence points to unrelenting moves in retribution after Spt. Steve Martin and his wife created a disruption in an encounter with the mules on the trail.

Jan 12th - 12:31pm | Matt Stubbs

Boy this sounds way too familiar to the plight of Cape Hatteras, Replace the word Mule with ORV... Erosion versus humans lets blame the humans (The low hanging fruit of the NPS) Outside influences seem to run the NPS who was doing much better before they interfered.

Group Urges NPS Director Jarvis To Reject ORV Plan For Big Cypress National Preserve

Jan 13th - 12:14pm | y_p_w

My understanding is that most of what's now Big Cypress National Preserve was originally slated to be part of Everglades NP, but the NPS wasn't able to purchase it from private landowners. It's certainly a part of the Everglades that deserves a high level of protection, but it has a different status.

Jan 13th - 10:57am | Ron Saunders

Thanks Y P W I visited the articles and found them to be most informative. I found the comments equally interesting.

Jan 13th - 00:34am | y_p_w

Here's an NPT article from a few years ago: /2007/12/big-cypress-national-preserve-more-orv-access-bear-island-unit-wise

Jan 12th - 19:57pm | Ron Saunders

Hugh This may very well be none of my business, but I am compelled to respond.

Jan 12th - 18:30pm | y_p_w

matt stubbs: These animals are killed by motorists on the public highways also. Stop Driving anything in Florida!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you should be walking only making you fair game for the panthers allowing them to have a new food source and allowing them to get to numbers that will make people like you be more tolerant of other peoples forms of recreation.....

Jan 12th - 18:16pm | Larry Keene

Hey Matt, I think Hugh was talking about vehicles in Big Cypress not on public highways and the issue in Big Cypress has more to do than just protecting panthers. You should tone it down a notch.

Jan 12th - 17:34pm | matt stubbs

These animals are killed by motorists on the public highways also. Stop Driving anything in Florida!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you should be walking only making you fair game for the panthers allowing them to have a new food source and allowing them to get to numbers that will make people like you be more tolerant of other peoples forms of recreation.....

Jan 12th - 15:49pm | Hugh

The rights of a relative few to engage in motorized recreation does not - I repeat NOT - trump the importance of protecting Public Trust resources like Big Cypress for the vast majority of the rest of us. Also, anything that can protect endangered species like the Florida Panther MUST be done. And if that means keeping joyriding yahoos out, the SO BE IT.

Trickle of Documents Highlights National Park Service's Mistakes In Hubbell Trading Post Investigation

Jan 13th - 11:27am | d-2

jeepers, Dottie ! I would hope every national park system area would have a "Chief Ranger" position. The Ranger is our primary point of contact when we visit a national park. To me, the ranger symbolizes consistent excellence that ties all these highly diverse parklands together, and symbolizes that each park tells an essential part of the american experience.

Jan 12th - 15:51pm | Dottie

Hubbell Trading Post had a position for "Chief Ranger"?

Jan 12th - 13:53pm | Rangertoo

I can tell you that I was once the Chief Ranger at Hubbell Trading Post and no one talked to me.

Yellowstone National Park Saw a Record 3.6 Million Visitors in 2010

Jan 13th - 09:46am | Lee Dalton

Right, Kurt and Bob. Maybe that's why a long time ago, we always cited our visitation figures as "estimated" and rounded off to the nearest hundred or thousand depending upon the size of our NPS location. I was just wondering if new technology had somehow changed all that.

Couple That Was Lost In Grand Canyon National Park Had Good Survival Plan

Jan 12th - 20:37pm | Anonymous

It sure helps to have a good contour map and know how to read it. Another important skill is to keep track of where you are as you progress along your route based on the contour map and key markers like cliffs, peaks and drainages. The Grand Canyon is a great place to apply this skill to keep from getting lost and to get back to where you need to be.

Reconstruction of Newfound Gap Road in Great Smoky Mountains Will Stretch Over 6-7 Years

Jan 12th - 17:36pm | matt stubbs

one word "government"

Jan 12th - 15:18pm | Anonymous

Six to seven years just to repair the road seems excessive since it took less time than that to build the road from scratch in the early 20th century. It only took five years to build Hoover Dam in approximately the same time period. Government regulations and the lack of a work ethic causes jobs to take much longer today than they did just a few decades ago.

Reader Participation Day: Should Pets Be Given More Leeway in National Parks?

Jan 12th - 17:22pm | Anonymous

I don't even like seeing dogs in campgrounds, much less trails, because the barkers are never hushed by owners or anyone else. Campground volunteers ignore this, presumably because it seems like law enforcement duties. If dogs are not supervised responsibly in campgrounds, how much less likely is it that they will be on leash on trails, not accosting strangers and chasing wildlife?

Political Lineup For House Natural Resources Committee Sure to Produce Fireworks Over Public Lands

Jan 12th - 16:09pm | George Orwell

I suppose the comment that Anonymous is referring isn't the most extreme of what I've been hearing. What is extreme is what the Environmental Movement has become. It's an industry and it's pretty common to see the dark underbelly that "pimps" the resource. It's the people in the middle of the spectrum that seem the reasonable ones.

National Park Mystery Spot 20: The Business End of the Arrow

Jan 12th - 13:34pm | Bob Janiskee

You've got it, Matt. It's Convoy Point at Biscayne National Park. I'm going to give RangerLady an assist. Check back tomorrow for an explanation of the clues.

Jan 12th - 13:33pm | RangerLady

OK...since it's near the visitor center and you can see Elliot and Adams Key, I'm going with Convoy Point

Jan 12th - 13:31pm | Matt W

Convoy Point, Biscayne You travel in a convoy to avoid the wolfpack.

Jan 12th - 13:30pm | Bob Janiskee

You've got the right park, riverotter and Rangerlady, but you're not going to get this one by naming keys until you run out of keys.

Jan 12th - 13:28pm | riverotter1971

ADAM KEY in Biscayne National Park

Jan 12th - 13:24pm | Bob Janiskee

RangerLady, you are ever so close.

Jan 12th - 13:19pm | Bob Janiskee

Nope; not Dry Tortugas.

Jan 12th - 13:03pm | RangerLady

Then I'm going with my second guess of Elliot Key in Biscayne National Park. After that I have no idea! YOu picked a good one Bob

Jan 12th - 13:02pm | riverotter1971

its Dry Tortugas National Park in the Keys

Jan 12th - 12:58pm | Bob Janiskee

Sorry, RangerLady, it's not Cape Point. Eric, remember that the mystery spot is in a national park (which Patriot's Point, home of the WW II carrier Yorktown, is not)

Jan 12th - 12:48pm | Eric

Thanks to Matt and Bob's clues, I think I got it. Patriot's Point at Fort Sumter.

Jan 12th - 12:47pm | RangerLady

I'm going to guess Cape Point at Cape Lookout National Seashore

Jan 12th - 12:34pm | Bob Janiskee

Correct side of the continent Matt, but that's about it.

Jan 12th - 12:18pm | Matt Stubbs

Cape Hatteras?

Reader Participation Day: What Is The Most Unusual, Interesting, Or Silly National Park Souvenir You've Seen?

Jan 12th - 13:27pm | dustyboots

I was taking a course in college on Enthnicity, Gender and Class in the Southwest and needed some props for a presentation I was doing on stereotyping of Native Americans. At somewhat-nearby Petrified Forest NP, I bought some plastic "Indian dolls" with eyes that closed and some Made-In-China rubber tomahawks. I was so embarrased to purchase these!

Fort Sumter and Bull Run Stamps Will Lead Off Civil War 150th Anniversary Commemorative Series

Jan 12th - 12:29pm | Bob Janiskee

An editorial from The (Columbia, SC) State newspaper (December 19, 2010; p. A-8) addresses this issue at great length.

Jan 12th - 12:00pm | toothdoctor

Bob,

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