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Is the National Park Service Obligated to Better Promote Proposed Change in Gun Regulations?

May 23rd - 14:59pm | Frank N

My opinion has been, and remains, that the Park Service should hand out a questionnaire at the entrance station of each and every National Park. Ask the people who actually go to our National Parks. This should not be decided by politicians, the NRA or internet blogs.

May 23rd - 14:53pm | Kelly

Is there any word yet what the Department of the Interior (DOI) decided was proper procedure for this proposed rule change? The official notice for the proposed rule indicated that DOI wasn't sure what its legal obligations were in regard to the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA).

May 23rd - 14:45pm | Anonymous

Thank you, Lone Hiker for injecting some sense into the debate. I'm sick of hearing the crap that people put out about how the big, bad, liberal government (or is it the gub-ment?) is out to ruin America by placing reasonable restrictions on guns.

May 23rd - 14:12pm | Lone Hiker

Past posts from a variety of CCP holders admit that they have been and will continue to bring weapons into public lands. Fred was the only one who had the stones enough to openly admit to it, kudos to him.

May 23rd - 14:12pm | Anonymous

NPCA has put out an action alert giving people info on the rule change and how to comment in opposition to the gun regs.

May 23rd - 14:11pm | Fred Miller

Absolutely. I don't know WHO would spread the word, but if folks are OPPOSED they should find out somehow. The NRA has over four million active members.

May 23rd - 13:50pm | Kurt Repanshek

Fred, I have no doubt the NRA has mounted an enormous campaign. Unfortunately, my guess is that only those folks entering gun shops or holding an NRA membership would learn the details. That leaves an awfully huge population out there.

May 23rd - 13:43pm | Kurt Repanshek

Neil, I hope you're right. But across the country there are more than a few gun incidents involving those holding CCW permits. In 2006 there were 1,950 "weapons offenses" in the national parks; in 2007 that number dipped to 1,495, which still is a staggering number. Unfortunately, the NPS can't say how many of those involved permitted gun owners.

May 23rd - 13:32pm | Fred Miller

In the interest of fairness, it should be pointed out that the NRA and every gun shop in the United States is telling folks about the necessity to post comments SUPPORTING the regulation change. IF someone OPPOSES the rule change, they should be told by SOMEONE that they can post a comment if they want to. The OPPOSERS will be in very lonely company though, IMHO.

May 23rd - 13:01pm | Kurt Repanshek

Sorry Neil, but I think that's a very realistic possibility. Even you yourself point out that "most ... are extremely responsible and fanatical." The concern here isn't the behavior of "most" permit holders, it's of those who are more cavalier.

May 23rd - 12:46pm | Neil

"or strolling across the Colter Bay campground in search of a cold beer."

Park History: Crater Lake National Park

May 23rd - 12:45pm | pkrnger

During the summer of 2000, the USGS and their contractors extensively resurveyed Crater Lake's inner caldera below the lake's surface. Using the USGS benchmarked elevation for the lake's surface of 1883 meters (6178 feet), they determined the lake's maximum depth to be 594 meters (plus and minus 1.2 meters [one sigma error] or a 95% uncertainty range of from 591.6 to 596.4 meters).

National Park System Benefits From Omnibus Natural Resources Bill

May 23rd - 12:11pm | Anonymous

A National Quilt Museum??? Are we nuts? I'm sure quilts (see subtitle D in the article) are important, but I would think NPS has other things to spend its money on.

Book Review: Let's Go See:All 50! -- Visiting the 50 States Journal

May 23rd - 06:12am | Stephen L Martin

Wow, that's great to hear that you like using yours, Sia. Thanks so much for sharing. For general information, I have sent one to the Honorable Barack Obama at his Washington D.C. office with the following note. I hope he likes the journal. ;-) May 23, 2008

May 22nd - 10:21am | Sia

I love using mine even though most of the states are empty (so far). I'd like to see it filled one day!! It's a marvelous journal BECAUSE it provides a handy structure to the process without excessive details stifling individuality so that it is truly a personal journal in the end! Excellent decision to go with "less is more".

Proposed Settlement Filed in Cape Hatteras National Seashore ORV Case

May 22nd - 22:01pm | Valerie

I vacation with my family, my parents, my aunts and uncles and their families on Cape Hatteras every year. If the beaches were closed to vehicles, we would stop going. Plain and simple.

Coalbed Methane Projected Proposed North of Glacier National Park Tabled

May 22nd - 16:46pm | Carps Lionel

Gas resources will soon come to an end. Instead of just throwing our money down our kitchen sinks we should better think of ways to replace methane with renewable energy sources.

NPS Retirees Oppose Carrying Guns in National Parks

May 22nd - 14:24pm | Fred Miller

Kurt - These are all valid concerns. I truly hope that they are un-founded. I am an avid safety "nut" and would NOT tolerate any of the actions you speak about.

May 22nd - 12:12pm | Anonymous

Kurt - One reason why you perhaps haven't seen so many anti-gun-in-parks comments recently is that this is an emotionally charged issue, and I'm probably not the only one who isn't commenting publicly because I don't want to be sucked into an argument/I-am-always-right-I-will-not-compromise 'discussion' with Mr. Rick and Mr. Fred.

May 21st - 22:31pm | Kurt Repanshek

Fred,

May 21st - 21:11pm | Fred Miller

It's way too soon to call, but I suspect that the proposed rule change concerning concealed handgun carry in the Parks will go forward. If it does, will the attendance change? Will people AVOID the Parks because they're afraid they might be sharing the trail with me or some other CCW permit holder?

May 21st - 19:54pm | Fred Miller

Kurt - You're right about some of these comments. Wading through some of the spelling and grammatical errors is downright painful. Their points would be much easier to perceive if they would have taken a minute to proofread their post. And it might have helped if they were trying to make some sense. Some of the comments left me asking, "What did he SAY??"

May 21st - 18:41pm | Kurt Repanshek

Fred, Thanks for your thanks. Truthfully, I do often wonder why I spend *so* much time on some of these issues. Re the comments filed so far, I found at least two that oppose the change. But you're right, far and away the majority do seem to support concealed carry in the parks. But I'm not sure for all the right reasons. Here's one questionable comment I found:

May 21st - 18:02pm | Fred Miller

This is truly an emotional discussion. We are fortunate to have Kurt willing to spend so much of his personal time and energy to facilitate this blog.

May 21st - 15:06pm | Rick

You said: > think it might be worth it for you to dig up some more recent information

May 21st - 15:00pm | Rick

One thing I forgot to mention, Kurt. The stats above referring to: > Guns in the Home - A Greater Risk to Family and Friends > • For every time a gun is used in a home in a legally-justifiable shooting there are 22 > criminal, unintentional, and suicide-related shootings.[16]

May 21st - 14:54pm | jr_ranger

Rick, I'm not trying to debate about guns in the parks or nitpick...but I do think it's worth pointing out that the links you provided are to reports/studies, etc that were done several years ago. The FBI, CDC, DOJ and PA links all referenced documents published no later than 2006.

May 21st - 13:57pm | Rick

Kurt, you said: > if you go back through the comments posted on this issue on the Traveler you'll find a few in which the individual has said they carried a concealed > weapon into a park against the law, so yes, I'd say that's pretty good proof of committing a crime.

May 21st - 13:10pm | Joel

Rick,

May 21st - 13:05pm | Kurt Repanshek

Rick,

May 21st - 10:38am | Rick

Kurt, I’ll tell ya’ what. I’ll buy your Brady Bunch “statistics” if you believe whatever the NRA says. That’s what I thought. We're not talking specifically about the need for a concealed carry permit holder to shoot someone ("justifiable homicides" - although police shootings are part of the overall data set that the Brady site doesn't specify).

May 21st - 00:26am | Anonymous

If you can get them to ask the wrong questions... Why does a government who, has people in charge of nuclear weapons and armies supplied with tanks and missiles and all other sort of very expensive weaponry, have any moral right to deny my right to a hand gun. You know what tyranny is, it's when some people claim the right to use violence to disarm other people.

May 20th - 21:33pm | Lone Hiker

Q) You know the more common name for a "well armed society"? A) A war zone If that's your idea of a "safer" society, God help us all. EVERYBODY loses those battles.

May 20th - 13:31pm | Anonymous

Wow! Kurt, these stats are most alarming and frightening. It will be no wonder with these hard cold facts that the NRA will distort this report to benefit the holy-then-thou gun lobby. My first encounter with a gun slaying was when I worked at the local hospital years ago as a surgical tech. The young slain peace officer was in his thirties and did leave a wife with two kids.

May 20th - 11:35am | Kurt Repanshek

Rick, good to see you back at the Traveler, although I'm sorry it took the gun issue to bring you back. That aside, if you could provide a link to your FBI data that'd be helpful. Here are some other numbers, from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence:

While Bison Are Driven Back into Yellowstone National Park, Questions Over Management Continue

May 22nd - 12:24pm | jsmacdonald

Now an even fresher memory - I'm sad to report that the nine bulls were sent to slaughter this morning. That's confirmed by BFC, as well as a person who witnessed this in Horse Butte. That brings the total to 1,613 killed; the total buffalo left in Yellowstone is estimated to be close to 2,100 (well more than half now dead from the fall population); however, no one really knows.

May 21st - 18:28pm | jsmacdonald

According to Buffalo Field Campaign, the Montana Department of Livestock has just captured another 9 bulls, which they intend to slaughter. So, despite what we've been lead to believe, the slaughter isn't over.

University Professor Missing in Canyonlands National Park

May 22nd - 10:42am | ironranger

According to the NPS Daily Report, this disappearance was a planned suicide and the park launched a search for Mr. Henderson previous to his expected return date.

Closed to the Public For Nearly a Year, Artist Point in Yellowstone National Park is Reopening

May 21st - 18:25pm | jsmacdonald

If you are traveling to the park this weekend, the weather is supposed to be terrible. Tonight, for example, there is a snow advisory for the park with up to 15 inches of snow possible.

Free Shuttle Buses Will Make It Easier To Visit The South Rim of Grand Canyon National Park

May 21st - 10:39am | kath

How are they going to monitor the entrance pass? With a private car it takes one pass for everyone in the vehicle. With one free Golden Eagle (or whatever they call the senior pass) everyone in the car gets in. I suppose you just show the pass and tell the driver your group is all together on one pass.

May 20th - 16:56pm | John H

That's great and reminds me of the buses to Zion. No more fighting for a room in Grand Canyon itself 6 months in advance. However, is there going to be a special bus lane? The line waiting to get in can get pretty jammed during the summer. The only thing worse than waiting in a traffic jam would be waiting in a bus in a traffic jam.

May 20th - 15:45pm | Marylander

Excellent!! I am impressed that this idea came to a reality. Disney World had it right years ago, and the park systems are finally catching up. In Walt Disney World, once you arrive and park your car, there is absolutely no need to move it again until you are checking out. Finally, I will have that same advantage for the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.

National Park Quiz 3: Bridges

May 21st - 06:46am | Sabattis

Only 8 out of 10 - I'm not so good with my New York City bridges or my mountains on the Blue Ridge Parkway!

Kings Canyon National Park

May 21st - 05:42am | Stephen L Martin

The more I browse here the more I get the insatiable bug to see it for myself. I thought the shot was excellent.

May 20th - 18:44pm | Dorothy

Yikes, that guy is a bit grumpy. It is a beautiful shot. I can't wait to see this park. One of the best things about this site is the ability to share pictures, thoughts, ideas, etc. regarding our one common bond, a love for our National Parks. As an amateur photographer but seasoned hiker, I'm glad to have found a site like this on which people's experiences run the gamut.

Violent Deaths in the National Parks

May 21st - 01:05am | Jurjen Smies

tim wrote: Almost no Russian civilians own firearms [...]

May 20th - 16:16pm | Jurjen Smies

Frank wrote: This is all meaningless. What is really telling is the quote from Anonymous above, "You have to go out seven decimal places on a calculator to determine what percentage of Park visitors got killed in 2007."

National Park Quiz 2: Straddlers

May 20th - 22:23pm | Sabattis

I'd certainly be delighted to....

May 20th - 15:13pm | Bob Janiskee

Sabbatis, this is fascinating stuff. As I may have said already, Kurt and I have been talking about drafting a Traveler article focused on the national park name-game nonsense and the associated administrative labyrinth. You've given us some excellent fodder, and for that we're very thankful. Are you willing to critique our first draft?

Most, But Not All, Of Olympic National Park Within Reach For Memorial Day Weekend

May 20th - 22:17pm | Chuck Marunde

Kurt, thanks for the update. I love jogging and hiking in the park. I grew up in Alaska running in the woods, and this is the best of the Creator, right here outside Port Angeles. Appreciate the info.

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